Stacy Norton is a seasoned financial advisor specializing in retirement planning, insurance solutions, and wealth protection. With over 17 years of experience in the industry, she has built a strong reputation for helping clients navigate complex financial decisions with a personal, hands-on approach. Stacy is deeply involved in NAIFA, serving as North Dakota’s state president and advocating for industry advancements and legislative initiatives. Passionate about client education, she emphasizes the importance of long-term care planning and leverages strategic partnerships to provide comprehensive solutions.
Jeremy Vidmar, FIC, CLTC has a wealth of experience from his tenure in the insurance planning industry since 2018. With a background in banking and tax planning, he has extensive experience in estate planning, business succession, and long-term care solutions for clients across various industries. Jeremy holds a Bachelor of Arts in Philosophy and pursued advanced theological studies in Rome. He is passionate about helping advisors and clients navigate complex insurance solutions.
NAIFA would like to thank E4 Insurance Services for sponsoring this episode.
Navigating the complexities of long-term care planning and insurance brokerage can be overwhelming for both advisors and clients. Many financial professionals struggle with introducing these topics, while clients often delay making crucial decisions until it’s too late. So, how can advisors effectively integrate technology, deepen client relationships, and provide better solutions for long-term care planning?
Stacy Norton, a financial advisor with expertise in retirement planning and risk management, and Jeremy Vidmar, an insurance brokerage expert specializing in estate planning and long-term care, offer valuable insights. Stacy emphasizes the importance of personal connections in financial advising, particularly in the Midwest, where face-to-face relationships are still highly valued. Jeremy shares how technology such as AI-driven underwriting tools is transforming the industry, while highlighting the continued need for personalized guidance. They stress the necessity of long-term care planning and debunk myths about affordability, offering hybrid policy options and alternative financial strategies for clients who don’t qualify for traditional coverage.
In this episode of the Advisor Today podcast, Chris Gandy and Zack Huels interview Stacy Norton and Jeremy Vidmar, experts in the financial services industry, about the evolving landscape of financial advising and insurance solutions. They discuss the role of technology, the importance of relationship-based advising, and strategies for overcoming client objections to long-term care. They also share regional client preferences and NAIFA’s impact on the industry.
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Intro 00:02
Welcome to NAIFA’s Advisor Today podcast series, where we focus on how financial advisors work, live, and give to their local communities and our greater financial services industry. Now let's get started with the show.
Chris Gandy 00:20
Hi everyone. Welcome to Advisor Today podcast where we love to lift the voice of you, the advisor, and some of the most unique and powerful people in the industry. We are super excited about today's podcast. But first we need to kick it over to Zack Huels, who's going to tell us a little bit about the importance of sponsorship and our sponsors here at NAIFA.
Zack Huels 00:41
Yeah. Our sponsor today is E4 Insurance Services. Are you ready to elevate your insurance practice? E4 Insurance Services is the place where you, as an advisor, can empower agents like yourself to reach new heights. Discover expert insights, innovative strategies and success stories that inspire whether you're just starting or seeking growth, E4 Insurance Services has the essential tools.
Tune in, transform your approach and take your business to the next level. Visit them at E4 insurance to learn more and let us make your insurance journey extraordinary. Chris, back to you.
Chris Gandy 01:15
Awesome, Zack. Thanks, Zack. I like that pocket square, man, I didn't know, I didn't listen, I didn't know I came playing today.
Zack Huels 01:22
You called me out like two episodes ago about not having a nice one. So now I need to step up my game.
Chris Gandy 01:28
Step up your game?
Zack Huels 01:29
Like how people can step up their game with E4.
Chris Gandy 01:31
You know, we are elevating our game today with E4 and we're super excited to have Stacy Norton and Jeremy Vidmar and we'll go to them now as we start to. So welcome, Stacy. How are you?
Stacy Norton 01:46
I'm well. How are you today, Chris?
Chris Gandy 01:48
Good, good. We're super excited to have you here and Jeremy, how are you? It's great. We're happy you're here also.
Jeremy Vidmar 01:55
Doing really well. Yeah. Thanks, Chris.
Chris Gandy 01:58
Awesome. So. So we'll go to you first. Stacy. Stacy.
So tell us a little bit about kind of who you are, your practice. The word is that you're in North Dakota, by the way. My son went to school at South Dakota. He was a jackrabbit, just an FYI. So the bison and no, the North Dakota.
Stacy Norton 02:14
Yeah, we know that.
Chris Gandy 02:16
They don't like them, but I spent a little time up there and realized that there's a lot of opportunity up there. So tell us a little bit about your practice. You're in North Dakota. Tell us a little bit about your agency kind of what you're doing and how you got to know for sure.
Stacy Norton 02:33
So my agency I have a partner, her name is Kim Lee and I have an agency together. We purchased actually several different books of businesses together. So we have a lot of history and a lot of agents from before. That gave us a lot of knowledge to build the big agency that we have. At this moment, we are in Minot and we deal with a lot of oil to our west, so we're right in the middle of the oil patch.
We're very close to it, so that's always very helpful as well. And we basically help people from as young as five to the age of 105 and help them plan anywhere between. And then we did a lot of work with E4 through Napa, and that's how we kind of teamed up with E4 and all of the help that they were able to give us.
Chris Gandy 03:21
Awesome. So you said the relationship was one that you looked at and decided, based on the connection of Napa, that it could potentially be a good partnership for you and your firm.
Stacy Norton 03:35
Absolutely. It was.
Chris Gandy 03:37
Awesome. So that brings us to Jeremy. Jeremy. So tell us a little bit about your role at E4 and what is E4 in the marketplace? I mean, I've heard the name, I kind of met a couple people there, but what is it? What does it do? How does it function?
Jeremy Vidmar 03:54
Sure. So we're an insurance brokerage firm. An independent brokerage firm. I'd say we're based in Fargo, North Dakota, so we're keeping everything in the state. I'm based in Bismarck, so I kind of cover the western side of the state, but I'd say we're a brokerage firm.
I mean, there's lots of them out there. I'd say we're big enough to handle everything that you need. And we have all the technology. One of the things that's really impressive, I feel like with us is the our ability to use technology and pivot when we need to do things that require a little bit more advanced services. But we're small enough that Stacy can call my cell phone, and she gets me pretty much any time that she needs to.
I also have a, you know, some really good support staff behind me that a lot of years of experience help and helping advisors, helping agents, life long-term care, disability and annuity products. So that's a little bit about who we are.
Chris Gandy 04:55
Jeremy, I'm going to stay with you for a moment and we'll go to Stacy. You mentioned technology. Talk to us a little bit about your view of what technology is doing to the industry, or what's it done to the industry. And then we just recently had a podcast about AI and the importance of it. I want to hear your thoughts on AI and the brokerage business.
And then last but not least, kind of three pronged question is, is the brokerage business really going away or is it actually like or is it always going to be there? I mean, just from your perspective?
Jeremy Vidmar 05:36
Sure. Great question. AI technology. I don't know a lot about it, to be honest with you. I kind of feel like I'm still in the stone ages in many ways.
I know, you know, we just started a partnership we're actually doing. We're trying a program out and we call it Sarah, I think is the name of it. It basically interesting. You can put in a client's details, and then I takes all of the client's details, health history and compares it to underwriting books with various different companies. So again, don't quote me on this.
And maybe this. Maybe I shouldn't even be talking about it on a podcast. But the way that it's working right now for us is when we have a client come in, you know, we want to see who's going to be the best carrier, who's going to be the best rates, who's going to underwrite the client in the best way. And we're able to use this technology now to facilitate that in, you know, minutes rather than days or weeks. So technology and with those kind of things, you know, there's also instant underwriting platforms that we've been using quite a bit of which we've seen a huge shift in the marketplace with, with instant issue, especially life insurance.
And so all of those things are really helping the, I would say, the client, but more importantly, the, the, the advisor to just have positive experiences with the, with placement of different products. To your second question, is brokerage going anywhere? I don't know, you guys tell me you guys are the ones who are meeting with clients. You're the ones who are looking for brokerage to help out in situations. And I mean, I think Stacy could maybe speak to that.
Like, is there a way of getting around the personal touch that sometimes you need? Personally, obviously I'm invested in this, so I'm going to say no, but you guys tell me what you think.
Chris Gandy 07:30
So Stacy, we're going to go to you and Stacy. So he kicked it over to you. So tell me a little bit about how you're embracing technology, your firm, your thoughts on AI and the insurance business. And then I'm going to ask a different question as that third part, how is leveraging other resources versus hiring those resources in-house? How has it helped you guys grow your business and save money by using like E4?
And you know, they have all the relationships and things like that. So the first one is first part of that question is technology and how what are you guys using on a local level to, you know, for client experience, your thoughts on AI and what's happening in the industry and then your relationship with E4 and leveraging their resources or their bench? Sure.
Stacy Norton 08:24
Well, to start with technology, obviously extremely important. You got to keep everything up to date, that type of thing. We just as today we speak, are switching over to a different broker dealer through our security. So that's always just a fun thing. We have had clients, we have generational clients.
We have clients that like to meet in person that like to do things with a handshake. We have amazing down to earth people that we use. So technology helps us in some ways, but actually hurts us in other ways because our clients don't like technology, they don't like doing the things they don't like meeting over Zoom. They don't like meeting on all of that side of things. We like doing things in-person and seeing each other and having that relationship.
They also still get a little away from the actual apps online, etc. they don't necessarily like that either. They would rather we help them. But overall, technology has done amazing things for the industry and the things that we can do going forward and just the advancements that we're able to make. I mean, something as little as doing a little bio, I check and whip that up in five seconds versus it. It probably took me half the day to get to do a bio on myself.
So technology and the things that we've seen, and even the podcasts and the lives that have been going on, it is just amazing the things that are out there. And then in regards to do, I think that brokers are going away. How I like to use we'll just use Jeremy and E4. They have ideas. They have different thoughts.
They have different suggestions. They see things. We're dealing with clients every single day. We're seeing it on one level. They're seeing things at a different level that I always like to use their insight on.
I also like to use. It's one more person that I can bounce a case off of, that you can get a different variety and a different viewpoint from. They can see things one way, and I can see things a different way by the end of our conversation. Now, I've seen things as a third way, and that only can help clients going forward, trying to do the best to get them the best one for everything that we need to do.
Zack Huels 10:28
You know, it's something that I find really interesting and we're all Central Time Zone people, so we're all Midwest. I know Chicago is kind of its own thing, Chris, but we're all Midwest. We all like that face to face interaction sort of thing. And do you think that it's going away elsewhere and that we are keeping that sort of core community alive with Midwest values? Or do you think that that face to face is, is still happening elsewhere as well?
I mean, I know that it a lot of people are saying young people don't like that. So I mean, what do you what are your guys thoughts on that particular.
Stacy Norton 11:02
So I will say I have clients all around the country. And the clients that I do have in other states, they have no problem calling me, doing the Zoom, doing all of those things. And it's not a in-person thing. I would say you're absolutely right. The Midwestern thing is definitely the in-person feel.
It's my local clients that want to see me want to be by me, want to be the hands on. But all around the rest of the country, there is a different feel for a lot of the people that I deal with.
Jeremy Vidmar 11:31
Yeah, I'd say one of the things I often think about is like the efficiency of things. So Zoom, Teams, whatever you're going to use for when you're trying to be efficient, it is very efficient. I mean, in terms of there's no travel, I know one of my colleagues works in the Twin Cities, and even within the Twin Cities, you know, he would have 6 to 8 appointments a day and he would do them all over Zoom. Well, what he was slowly discovering, though, was that as he was doing more and more of the Zooms, you know, post-COVID, he was realizing that the relationships were somewhat deteriorating. And so even after a couple of years of doing it over Zoom, he realized that he needed to start going back into the branches and visiting with advisors, because that's who we that's who our clients are, is advisors.
So he found that making the, you know, putting on the shirt and tie. Unfortunately, I don't have one today, but putting on the shirt and tie and walking into the branch rekindled a lot of those relationships that you kind of lose. And I feel like in the Midwest, we do, we do hold or we prize that in a way that maybe other places. Other areas of the country don't as much. But again, if it's efficiency, you're looking for the Zoom and the Teams are going to work very well.
But if it's a stronger relationship you're trying to develop, I think hand to hand is really the way to go.
Chris Gandy 12:56
You know, that brings us back to the idea that relationships are the new capital. You know, after going through COVID, there was a realization, I think, for a lot of practices that there's more than one way to build a business. And I think that that was pretty, pretty clear. Stacy, can we talk to you a little bit about your history? How long have you been in the business?
Stacy Norton 13:26
I've probably been in the business for 17 years.
Chris Gandy 13:31
Okay, so seven so 17 years. So in your 17 year period of time. Can you tell us a little bit about kind of how your practice has evolved? Have you always been on the risk management side? Were you on the investment side and then moved to risk management, or are you multi-line doing PNC like? So tell us a little bit about your journey and how you got to being a part a partner in a firm.
Stacy Norton 13:55
Well, I've had a very uneventful journey, but a very educational journey. We start very I started in a captive agency. I started with Horace Mann, originally great company and great people to work with. Wasn't sure the captivity. I do have the PNC.
I have it all. I have the auto home life securities license. Wasn't sure though, that the captive agency was good, but I moved to Allstate giving a wider range, a little bit bigger area, and even then I realized, no, I needed to become independent. And that's where I ended up, where I'm at this moment. Each time.
I had a mentor in each one of those places that had given me a chance and had taught me things, and I was able to take those things and build a bigger and better area. Whereas now our agency focuses on more retirement, more protection, more securities, those types of events. We are out of the PNC at this moment. If we have more staff, I think maybe down the road we would be something we definitely would get into. But right now we're focusing more on the rest of the business.
Chris Gandy 15:03
You mentioned your relationship with NAIFA and you know, North Dakota is a big state. It's most people that have never been up there. I'd never been to South Dakota. And then I went to North Dakota. And I'm like, this state just keeps going and going and going.
And it's like, there's not a lot here. Right? So Jeremy and Stacy, how did the two of you meet? And I heard there's a little bit about long-term care and as a long-term care kind of relationship and the importance of that. So we'll start with one. How did the two of you meet and then two, what made the two of you decide to work together?
Jeremy Vidmar 15:45
I'm trying to think, Stacy, where was the first? I mean, there was an event. An event in North Dakota or was it?
Stacy Norton 15:52
I believe it was in North Dakota. Maybe it was the first time we actually met. I had known about you for probably before I met you. But I was already with somebody at another company at the time, and so I did not was with them. And then I think we just got to know each other a little bit more. Having gone to DC and having done the different events throughout NAIFA.
Jeremy Vidmar 16:13
Yeah. So then and then I think it was just a matter of a relationship kind of started from there. Dan Peterson, the president of our firm, I know you know Dan pretty well, Stacy. And so, yes, you had visited with him. And then again, just bringing ideas is what I the way that the sort of relationship started to develop in long-term care was definitely one of them.
You know, we as a firm and I personally really take a strong I have a strong passion for long-term care planning. And so bringing the ideas to Stacy and the firm that she works, you know, the clients that she works with within her firm. I think that was one area where she really saw value in what we could bring to her and her clients.
Chris Gandy 16:56
We mentioned long-term care. So let's dive into what I call the forgotten insurance. Right. And you know, it is one thing that I tell my clients, it's the one insurance that I hope you never have to use, but if you have to use it, I'm glad. We're also glad you have it right.
And so. It's the forgotten insurance. Because, you know, we clients convince us all the time that they either a don't need it or b they can't afford it. Right, Jeremy. So I'm going to go to you for a moment.
And can you debunk this myth, these myths that exist or, you know, long-term care is going away because, you know, at the end of the day, it's just a price so high that no one can ever afford it. Right. Those are some of the common things that we hear. But what do you see on your side evolving in the long-term care space. Because long-term care has gone through evolution, right?
At first everybody was in it tapping their toe into the market space. Over the last probably 8 to 10 years, the actuarial science actually came out. And those companies were like, oops, we underpriced this or we're out all completely. And now we're left with what we have now. So, so, so Jeremy, talk to us a little bit about long-term care. What's happening in the industry and the importance of just talking to our clients about it?
Jeremy Vidmar 18:23
Well, the first thing I'd say is I can't remember the statistics and most statistics are made up on the spot. So I could make up a number that we could talk about, I guess. But the numbers are clients are waiting for advisers to talk about it, and advisers are waiting for clients to talk about it. That's the first thing that I always say. Most advisors don't want to talk about long-term care.
Most clients are waiting for their advisors to talk about long-term care. And so you're sitting in this room, the two of you, and it's a great big elephant in the room about making a plan for what happens down the road. The second thing, I mean, if you want to talk about a myth, to sort of blow out of the water is that we don't know the products. And, I mean, there's a lot of different options out there. Yes, the traditional long-term care insurance, very mispriced in the past, and people are paying for it now.
And it's a big problem. There's no doubt about that. People are upset about it. They get mad when they see a premium notice increase all of those. But the hybrid products, the life insurance products, the various companies that are coming up with new solutions in order to handle the problem that's out there.
I mean, you have to get over it yourself. I'd say the first thing most advisors need to kind of start to rethink about long-term care in the way that they plan for their clients and then find somebody, find a broker, find insurance services. Give me a call and we can talk about what are the different solutions that are out there that you might not be thinking about or you haven't been introduced to yet?
Chris Gandy 20:04
Jeremy, since this is I don't want to make up any statistics, but I'm going to give you some from LIMRA, which is fairly trusted source, but 70% of all Americans over the age of 65 will develop a severe, long-term care need at some point during their lifetime. Know that. That one by itself. Yep. Is startling.
Jeremy Vidmar 20:31
The thing that I always the statistic that I was more referring to is who brings up long-term care with advisors. And this is really to advisors. And kudos to Stacy because I know she's begun to implement it. I don't I don't know if she just started when she started working with it, or maybe she can speak to that. But most advisors don't talk to their clients about it, and clients are waiting for their advisors to talk about it.
So yeah, 70% of 65 year olds, somebody's going to need it. But if we're going to talk to. Yeah.
Chris Gandy 21:02
Right. So if we look at husband and wife. Right. Husband and wife between a husband and wife and their parents. Right.
Between the between those statistical that statistical data. Right. We're going to have a for we're going to have 2.8, which is not a 0.8 person. Right. We're going to have 2.8 people utilize some sort of long-term care over the course of. Over the course of their life.
Jeremy Vidmar 21:29
I thought if it was, I thought if it was 70% for a couple would be 140% chance. Is that how that works or. No.
Chris Gandy 21:35
You're a better mathematician. You're a better mathematician than I. I'm just taking the generation one generation to be our parents and then our generation, which would be me and my significant other. Right. We take that number, right?
And obviously we multiply it out. Right. And then we come to that 70% number to the, you know, 2.8, which is not a 0.8. So let's say three people out of the four will utilize some long-term care coverage. So Stacy, we go to you.
Why is it such a passion of yours to talk about long-term care with your clients? I mean, at the end of the day, you know, there's you don't have to talk about it. I mean, it's.
Stacy Norton 22:15
I'm not going to talk numbers. I will talk to you about emotional and the things that I've seen and the things that I've gone through. One, I've had three grandparents, I'm sorry, four grandparents that ended up in long-term care. long-term care is expensive. It will knock out your wealth no matter how rich you are.
It'll easily go through everything. Let's just start with the money side of things. Just to protect your family. That alone is enough. But I will tell you this one story. I had a client. It was a lady. She was a widow. She was sitting across from me on my desk, and she was.
I could tell she just wasn't feeling good. She wasn't doing well. She just. She just didn't have it in there anymore. And as the meeting had gone on, I got a little bit more worried, a little bit more worried.
And by the end of the meeting, we had to call one of our kids to come get her, because I did not know if she would make it to her house by herself, and she didn't want me to take her, and she wasn't strong enough to actually get out of the house or get out of my office. And so I also was a little worried about her safety. Well, we got her into an assisted living area and with full meals taking your medicine properly. Active people around her. Within three and a half weeks, her and her daughter came to see me again.
As soon as she was done with that. Now. Now we're talking. The lady who we had to have help leave my office now is saying to me, okay, Stacy, let's go, I got to go. I got things to do. We got to dance tonight. I've got to go find some new shoes, because I had two people just thrive in these places. So it's not even just about the protection and all of that. It's about the quality of life that these places give to people and the changes that they make. It is so astronomical to see the client who I had to call to have her daughter come get her and then have the daughter come with her the next time saying, okay, we got to go get dance shoes because mom wants to go out dancing.
When does that actually happen? If she did not have that long-term care insurance, she would have never went in. She would have never had a better quality of life. That to me is nine times out of ten, the things that I see going forward, People just change. They're just so much better once they get into those places.
No one wants to go in those places or likes to go in those places, but the things that they can do, it's night and day difference. And to me that's important. We can then give people that option to be able to take care of themselves and to have a better quality of life. That to me is important. And then working with E4, I will tell you that Jeremy and Shane are by far the best out there when it comes to long-term care and the options that are out there.
There's no one that can beat them guys, and the passion that they have behind it is unbelievable. So they've been a great help with this side of things.
Chris Gandy 24:49
There's another statistic that reports that because of COVID-19, the amount of people that will need long-term care. Percentage wise has increased by over 20% because we don't know what we don't know about what happened during COVID-19 and the long-term effect of and that comes from a recent study.
Zack Huels 25:11
So yeah.
Chris Gandy 25:13
That's pretty significant.
Zack Huels 25:15
I mean, it's. Yeah. I mean, I can tell you personally from that and Covid is not being around my family as much and then realizing that we weren't hearing from my father and then having to go over there and check on him and realize, oh, he's not doing well. And it's just you didn't know that because you weren't checking in on each other all the time and seeing each other all the time. So when I mean, I like that Jeremy was saying, you know, make sure that you're asking about it.
You're the one starting the conversation as an advisor, because no one did for my father. And when he ended up in hospice, it was the kind of thing where the family it was, it almost tore us apart because we're just sitting down, just like, what do we do? We don't have the plan in place for this. So if the advisor maybe put that in place for him, it wouldn't have been something that we would have had to even worry about. So no, I totally echo that, as you know, advisors checking that they're the ones starting that conversation, I think is the important thing for sure.
Chris Gandy 26:11
So, Stacy, I have a question for you as an advisor. I'm an advisor to what do you say. And Zack can highlight our centers. You know, we do have a center for long-term care. And Zack can highlight what that is and where to find it somewhere in the resources.
But Stacy, what do you say when someone says to you, I'll pass on long-term care after you've done planning for them? You work with them their whole life and you're like, this is the next step. Here's what you need. And they say to you, nah, I'm just going to pass on that part. What do you say?
Stacy? And I asked this question because I have clients that I recommend it to, and it absolutely makes sense. And I have other clients that for all practical purposes, they have wealth enough to be able to possibly maintain it without having it. But it's interesting that the people that actually, I don't know, it's almost like buying insurance. It's like the people that need it the most don't buy it, and the people that it's kind of an interesting dynamic.
So, Stacy, I want to ask you specifically because I have a couple clients currently where we've made the recommendation. They're retiring, right. They've got a certain amount of money that they can live off during the course of their life. And long-term care makes sense. So, Stacy, what do you say to clients that say I'm passing on long-term care?
Stacy Norton 27:48
Well, I always like to at least start with the plan of the fact that there are so many different long-term care insurance is out there right now that that to me, is the most important thing. I like the policies that, to be honest, I like the hybrid policies because hybrid policies give you options. You're not like locked into To a if you don't go into the nursing home or don't go into assisted living, you're not going to be able to do it or do anything with your money. One of their kids will always get the money back if they never use it. And so I also like to go and give personal examples of how my family, obviously with four different grandparents in a nursing home, has been affected over the years and how financially the difference it would have made for our family just alone, and the money that would have been able to be transferred down instead of going to the nursing home.
Another way I like to look at it is for every dollar that you put into, say, a nursing home slash assisted living policy, you get roughly anywhere between 5 and $7 back on the nursing home side. So no matter how much money you have, it's still a good investment as well if you were to end up in one of those places. So I like to use one of those different areas. But yes, it's still hard to convince everyone. I would have to agree with that.
Jeremy Vidmar 29:04
I just kind of want to add a little bit there as well. And I know one of the things we've really worked with Stacy. On is putting together some educational pieces for long-term care and making plans for clients, I would say, because the reality is, is we all know not everybody's going to either want insurance or be qualify for the insurance that we're suggesting that they move forward with. But the bigger thing from my perspective anyways is what is their plan of care, you know, where do they want to be cared for? Who's going to who's going to take care of them?
And then the last question you sort of ask is, well, how is it going to be paid for? Because when you start to delve into where do you want to be cared for? Most people are going to say at home, that's where they want to start. Who's going to take care of you? I don't want my kids or my wife to have to do it.
I don't want them to roll up their sleeves and provide the care. I want them to manage the care. And then naturally, it falls into, well, then how are we going to pay for it? And I mean, certainly if there's assets there, they can say, well, we're just going to self-pay. And notice, I like to say self-pay not self-insured because they're not insuring against the problem.
But if they're going to self-pay well then maybe we say okay well this is going to work for you. We're going to put that into the plan. But oftentimes it ends up bringing to light the need and the way that insurance really can satisfy those the goals that you have.
Chris Gandy 30:28
So Jeremy I'm going to throw it back at you then. What happens when a client can't qualify for the, say, hybrid policy? Well, now. Now what? What do we do?
Do we do? We do. Is there an alternative to that? Because at the end of the day, like you said, everybody doesn't qualify.
Jeremy Vidmar 30:49
Well, the first thing I'd say, and this is highlighting one other thing that E4, I think does very well is pre-screen clients. So the first thing we're going to do is before we even start talking about particular products, is we're going to get their health. And oftentimes on cases like this, we want to see medical records. We're going to have an independent underwriter review the records, and then we're going to make sure that whichever carrier that we're going to use, that they're going to be pre-screened, so that if they do call, if they're going to qualify, we're going to point them in the right direction to the right carrier. Now, if they don't if they don't qualify, if you're like totally off the table, they're uninsurable, which there's a lot of there's a lot of products out there and all of you are aware of it.
You know, you can find annuity products. You can find I mean, the hybrids are definitely way more lax on the underwriting. But then at the end of the day, if nothing's going to work for them, well, now you have to go back to the drawing board and say, well, what is the plan of care? Who are the people that are going to take care of you? Where are you going to be taken care of?
And then we're going to have to pivot and figure out how are assets going to be repositioned so that we can afford it. Who are the other planning people that we're going to bring in attorneys, CPAs to figure out how we can put this plan together and make it really work for this particular client.
Chris Gandy 32:05
You know, Jeremy, you say something that's pretty, pretty, pretty telling in the industry because, you know, you talk to some groups and they're like, oh, well everybody come on everybody. And I'm like, no, obviously you haven't been on our side. Go because I can give you ten cases right now where, you know, they didn't qualify. And we went out to the marketplace and didn't qualify, you know, just for one reason or another. Right?
The one that surprised me that I was shocked by was if someone was on permanent disability from X job. Right. Let's say they were, you know, 50 years old and they said, you know what? I've, I was hurt on the job and I'm quote unquote, permanently disabled, you know, for the purpose of just riding it to retirement. Right.
And they're going to retire at 57. but for all practical purposes, they can qualify for other insurance, like they can qualify for a standard life insurance policy. Right? Or they could qualify for an annuity, no problem. But the moment that definition of permanently disabled pops into the arena, which was what a surprise.
I think discovering is important was the moment that almost every I think everyone said nope. They're technically, you know, already said that they're disabled, which then knocks them out. So that was one of the shockers for me going through this process, because what I just spoke about was a real case. It was a 57 year old literally riding out to cities like, you know, I'm just going to, you know, had like hip op or whatever, but claim disability or whatever, permanent disability. And because of that, it was like automatic knockout.
And I'm like, really? And they're like, yeah, because they're, they're qualified now under Social Security, under the actual disability. So I didn't know that. And that's kind of part of I think educating, being a part of the center and understanding how education works is not just educating our clients, but us getting educated on what some of those things could be that we don't possibly see or know about until we go through that, that actual situation. And if we were listening to talk to most, most advisors don't know that I learned it the hard way by running head first into this.
No, no, no, he's capable. He can get life done. They're like, no. Like there's let me tell him, explain how that works. So that was it's kind of interesting. So Stacy, what do you do with your clients if they don't qualify for Or for LTC. What? What is your strategy? What do you what do you do? How do you how do you discuss that with the client?
Stacy Norton 35:05
Obviously very hard. We actually get them on board to do the long-term care. It is harder to figure out what the next step is. But one of the things that we try to do if we can't get the long-term care, but I mean all long-term care, if we can get an annuity with long-term care, we then start looking at different avenues. One of the different avenues we like to look at is maybe an income annuity that pays out for guaranteed for the rest of their life.
Get it ready to go so that we know for sure we do have that income and are able to protect them down the road. So they're not just set with everything. So fortunately, we have a lot of clients that live a long time, and if they're in a nursing home for a very long time, that easily could eat things up, where if we did have an immediate annuity or an income based annuity that has helped in the past. So those are one of the things we also help educate and get the next generation ready to go to so that we can have to two. Maybe we need to do a little bit of gifting as we're going through and making sure that everyone's taken care of and prepared for down the road. But we need to have something in place. So when that time comes, everyone is on board.
Chris Gandy 36:05
So Stacy, what you just mentioned was that you're looking at options, regardless of the long-term care piece, the long-term care piece just solidifies some of those other options or options that are available. So you're constantly thinking about other pieces in play, not just the long-term care. Right. And so that's an important mindset. I think all advisors listening to this should have is, you know, plan A right and then plan B and C if plan A doesn't work right, because you know, we need to they come to us for, for direction and guidance.
Right. And many times our hands are tied on, you know, we don't control the underwriting. We don't control the meds. We don't control, you know. We don't control the, you know, the case manager.
We don't can't control that stuff. Right. But the only thing we can try to do is, is manage the relationship. That goes along. And it's funny because a lot of the clients that don't call, the clients that don't, don't qualify, they take it very personal. Right. I mean, they take it really personal. Of. What do you mean? This insurance company won't insure me?
Well, I get, you know, and I'm like, listen, this is not personal. This is just an opportunity. And maybe the insurance company just missed that. On the opportunity of having you as a client. I don't know.
But, you know, and we kind of shift that kind of mentality because when they take it personal, when they take it personally, it's not that it's not a character issue. Right. And I think they take it as it's a character issue. Like I have good character. I'm a good person.
I have good credit. Right. And it's like, yeah, no, you qualify based on certain parameters and things like that. So there's just a lot of, I think, evolving and education and opportunity that we need to learn ourselves and we need to be able to educate our clients and more resources need to be available. Stacy, let me ask you a question about NAIFA and your history with NAIFA.
So in your tenure of being in the industry, like how did you get into NAIFA and why is that? Why is that even important? I mean, why are you why are you still in it? Like what I don't understand, like, you know, we're on a podcast. I get it right. But like, how did you get into NAIFA and drink the Kool-Aid? How did that happen?
Stacy Norton 38:28
Well, I got into NAIFA because in my very first place that I worked, the owner did not want to do NAIFA because he was busy doing other things and he was like, here you go, go to this lunch, you got to go to this lunch. Okay. So I went to a couple different lunches, played the role for the agency at that point, went to the next when I went to all state, then it was a little bit more. We all kind of went together a little bit more as a group, and I started realizing the impact that it made and just the friends that I made in the industry. I mean, we have a very great local Minot chapter.
We all get together. We're all there for each other. We do things for each other. It's very advantageous for the things that I was able to learn and the people I was able to learn, and just the knowledge from everybody else that that's how it started on the local level. And then we started getting involved in the state level, started going through the chairs.
Now I'm currently Nathan Archer, the president, and also starting to go to all the different places, go to DC several different times and the experiences that we had working with the legislation and all of the different legislative bills that have been out there. It's just the difference that I've seen and the difference that Nathan makes locally, statewide and then on the national level has just been astonishing of the things that can actually get done.
Chris Gandy 39:43
Stacy, thank you for your, your, your service, you know, your volunteerism and your inspiration for all of Napa. We help. We need help identifying those people that are leaders and those people that are stepping up in your state. Because again, we don't know. We don't know the stories of your state.
We don't know the stories of the people on your board. We don't know that. And part of the challenge and the opportunity and also the opportunity for Napa going forward is to start to really grassroots understand who are some of the people that we just don't know, right. Great ideas, great workers, great blah, blah, blah, and we just don't know who they are because we don't know. And I think that's a thank you so much for leading.
Get off the sideline and lead and going through the chairs. So we're super excited to see what you can do. And in North Dakota. So Jeremy tell me why. You know, E4 is a need for agency and you know why is it? Why is it important that how is NAIFA become a part of NAIFA? Become a part of kind of some of the relationships that you've built?
Jeremy Vidmar 41:00
Yeah. So I'd say I mean, the reason why E4 is so involved in NAIFA is also the reason why I'm involved in NAIFA and kind of going back, Dan Peterson, who's the president of our firm, he's the one who told me, you know, you're going to join NAIFA when I when I started with the firm. So it was kind of a voluntold. But what I, what I quickly discovered was the networking was great opportunity to share ideas, build relationships. But then what I've been so surprised at is the advocacy that NAIFA really provides personally.
And I think our firm also sees the huge value both on the state level and on the national level. Just seeing how much NAIFA really is able to influence or help. Just be a voice out there for our industry and the way that we can influence legislature for sure. But just in general, the way that NAIFA is really trying to help keep our industry going in the direction that we think it should be going. So as a firm, that's, I'd say the relationships, the networking and then the advocacy are the two most important pieces for us.
Chris Gandy 42:13
You know, the relationship with E4 is a strong one. Your leader Dan, is a loyal NAIFA member and an advocate for the industry. And we're super excited to have him and get him more involved in some of the things that NAIFA is doing. And I'm speaking on his behalf because I can and I will and just understanding that. Zack, what else do you have before I, you know, I'm gonna bring them into the lightning round.
I got a couple questions on the lightning round for them that I think, other than, you know, where's Jeremy's pocket square, you know.
Zack Huels 42:52
No, I think we've covered a lot. I think we bring on the lightning round. That's what I'm hearing.
Chris Gandy 42:58
Let's do it. Alright. So. So, guys, first thing come to mind if you've not seen our podcast, it's kind of like kind of a hot seat type thing. It's not really a hot seat.
It's just kind of a thing. You know, I'm going to ask you a couple questions, just whatever comes to mind. Don't overthink it. It's fun. It's it is what it is, people.
What I've learned at Napa is people remember people. They don't remember things that they don't remember titles, but they'll remember. Oh, Stacy says she likes chicken. You know, chicken wings from this store, like. Like they remember the most random things. But that's how you build. That's how you build relationships. So first thing I'm going to ask to both of you is on my journey to North Dakota. What is the one thing that I have to see? Stacy.
Stacy Norton 43:46
I would say you need to see Salem Sioux. I'm originally from New Salem. We have the largest Holstein cow. You need to go check that out. That's impressive.
Chris Gandy 43:56
And, Jeremy.
Jeremy Vidmar 43:58
I'd say the Badlands. You got to go further west than even Bismarck. You got to go out and see the Badlands.
Chris Gandy 44:03
Got to go see the Badlands. Okay, Zack, take note. When we go on our road trip, there's a couple things we need to go see. All right, Stacy, your favorite food?
Stacy Norton 44:14
Oh, wow. Shrimp. We'll say shrimp and eggs.
Chris Gandy 44:19
Shrimp and eggs.
Stacy Norton 44:21
Not necessarily together, but.
Chris Gandy 44:23
Okay, great. I thought that was. I thought that was — I thought Zack, I thought that was a course. And did we miss something great together?
Stacy Norton 44:30
Rice are amazing.
Zack Huels 44:31
Yeah. Fried rice.
Stacy Norton 44:33
Yeah.
Chris Gandy 44:33
Wow.
Jeremy Vidmar 44:34
Jeremy, I'm gonna have to say pizza. What kind? Well. So sausage, pepperoni, mushrooms, green peppers, olives, you know.
Zack Huels 44:46
Shrimp and eggs.
Chris Gandy 44:47
So, Jeremy. Jeremy, I'm going to ask you a real question, because this will tell me if you and I can be friends outside of here. Okay. So, New York style pizza. Thin crust or Chicago style?
Jeremy Vidmar 45:01
I'm going to have to say Chicago style.
Chris Gandy 45:03
Oh, okay. Are you saying that because I'm from Chicago?
Jeremy Vidmar 45:06
No, I just I mean, the doughy, the doughy texture, just, you know, that's what's that's what makes the pizza.
Chris Gandy 45:13
All right, so, Stacy, if you were to go back and tell your 20-year-old self, give your 20-year-old self advice. What advice would you give your 20-year-old self knowing you're going to be in this industry for a lifetime?
Stacy Norton 45:30
I would go back and tell my 20-year-old self to just keep giving. No matter what. Because the more and more you give, the more and more you're going to get back. And that's the one thing that you always don't think you have time for is to give or not. And the more and more I make the time, the more and more that just keeps coming back to me and our and our agency has grown dramatically.
And it's all because of just giving and giving, and it just seems to come back tenfold. And I wish I would do more of it going forward.
Chris Gandy 46:01
Awesome, Stacy, we look forward to it. So, Jeremy, since you've been cheating since you've been going after Stacy, it's a different question for you. So you could go back into history and have dinner with anybody in time, whether it's a past president, a current, a current leader, a past leader, or someone that's passed away and no longer with us, who would you go back and have dinner with and why?
Jeremy Vidmar 46:25
My grandfather actually, so I grew up with my grandfather. I knew him a little bit, but I didn't know him well. And I think that there's a lot you can glean from family. What's your history? Where'd you come from? So it'd be my grandfather.
Chris Gandy 46:43
Awesome. Nathan is listening from North Dakota. Is there anything you would like to share with our contingency and or our following of NAIFA Nation?
Jeremy Vidmar 47:01
It's a great state. You should come visit. You can see the Badlands and. And Sue. What's her name again?
Zack Huels 47:07
Salem. Sue. Is that.
Jeremy Vidmar 47:08
Salem? Sue?
Stacy Norton 47:09
There we go. Sue. Yes.
Chris Gandy 47:10
Salem. Salem. Sue.
Stacy Norton 47:12
Check out Salem Sue. On the way to the Badlands. Of course. And then, of course, watch out for March Madness. Because North Dakota did pretty well last year.
A little hoping we can do just as well this year. So it's coming and we'd like to compete against everybody for March Madness bracket pack.
Chris Gandy 47:29
So you know, Stacy, you know, I don't know if you knew this, but you do. You know that. That was my idea, you know.
Stacy Norton 47:37
Well, I can probably see why it was your idea.
Chris Gandy 47:40
You know, I actually one day we were having a conversation because I was on the IFA committee, and we said, let's get into the March Madness. Like, everybody's in it, like even offices, even people that don't follow basketball. Like everybody's in that. Why is this? Like everybody's super excited and everybody believes in the small guy beating the big guy, right?
And so yeah, we look forward to seeing if you guys can dethrone the champs because last year we did a phenomenal job. We raised $100,000 in one year from just a new program with creative thought. And that is awesome. And we're super excited to see what we can do this year. So thank you.
We look forward to your stay competing. Thanks, Jeremy, for you being here at E4 and providing resources, but also allowing us to continuously learn about the industry. And Zack, do we have anything before I close this out.
Zack Huels 48:38
Close this out.
Chris Gandy 48:40
Wonderful. Thanks everyone for tuning in to Advisor Today podcast, where we uplift the voice of even North Dakota's like Miss Stacy and Jeremy. So. So if you don't know who E4 is, connect with them through an A for relationship. When you're up in North Dakota, make sure you go see Salem Sioux.
And we heard the Badlands, and we know there's some things you should do there but always give back to our community. We're here as Advisors Today. We look forward to seeing you next week. Same place, same time. We'll see you around NAIFA.
Stacy Norton 49:11
Thank you guys. Thank you very much Chris. Thank you to Zack. Have a great day.
Outro 49:17
Thanks for joining us for NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series. Make sure to subscribe to get future episodes. And if you're interested in coming on the show, let us know.