Chris Gandy is the Founder of Midwest Legacy Group LLC, a boutique concierge insurance group for executives, professional athletes, physicians, business owners, and entrepreneurs. It focuses on the client's interests in wealth accumulation, wealth preservation, retirement strategies, insurance, asset protection, and investments. He previously worked as a Representative for Northwestern Mutual Financial Network, the APEX Consulting Group LLC, and was the Senior Vice President of Sales at MassMutual Chicago.
Carina Hatfield is a Life Underwriting Training Council Fellow (LUTCF), Commercial Lines Coverage Specialist (CLCS), and Life and Annuity Certified Professional (LACP). As a third-generation insurance agent, she specializes in property and casualty insurance and works with locally owned businesses. Carina serves NAIFA as a National Trustee and a moderator for Pennsylvania’s Leadership in Life Institute. She is also the immediate past President of NAIFA Pennsylvania. Recently, Carina helped develop the organization’s new online LACP prep course.
Kathleen Owings is the Principal and Financial Advisor of Westbilt Financial Group, an independent financial advisory firm providing comprehensive planning for clients wanting to achieve personal goals. Graduating from the US Military Academy at West Point in 2000, Kathleen served for eight years as an active duty officer in the Army Corp of Engineers. In 2007, she began her career in the financial services industry, obtaining licensure in life and health insurance and maintaining Series 6, 7, 63, and 65 securities registrations. Kathleen’s book, Put Your Money to Work: A Woman's Guide to Financial Confidence, helps women take control of their finances.
Leadership conferences and networking events often spark fresh ideas and motivation, but many attendees struggle to translate those insights into action within their organizations. Without widespread participation, valuable strategies are easily lost in translation. How can leaders ensure that what’s learned at these events effectively spreads, drives growth, and truly impacts their teams?
Chris Gandy, Carina Hatfield, and Kathleen Owings explore this challenge and offer practical strategies to overcome it. Carina, a leadership and membership development expert, suggests creating engaging cross-state activities like collectible pins and gamified networking to encourage broader interaction. Kathleen, an experienced financial advisor, emphasizes the importance of stepping outside comfort zones and using structured engagement tools, like participation-based incentives, to build stronger connections. Chris, a seasoned industry leader, highlights the need for leaders to embrace vulnerability, seek continuous self-improvement, and adopt a mindset of climbing rather than camping, meaning leaders must consistently push themselves beyond their current achievements to drive lasting change.
In this episode of the Advisor Today podcast, Chris Gandy, Carina Hatfield, and Kathleen Owings, financial experts, talk about building leadership endurance and fostering meaningful engagement. They discuss the power of community, the benefits of self-reflection, and the resources available through Life Happens to help advisors better serve their clients.
Quotable Moments:
Action Steps:
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Intro 00:02
Welcome to NAIFA’s Advisor Today podcast series, where we focus on how financial advisers work, live and give to their local communities and our greater financial services industry. Now let's get started with the show.
Chris Gandy 00:20
NAIFA nation, we're back. Welcome to Advisor Today Podcast, where we give you the voice of the advisor and we interview some of the top minds in our industry. And we're talking today to Carina Hatfield and Kathleen Owings. We're going to have a jolly roundtable discussion about hot topics or what's happening in and out of NAIFA. And with that being said, before we get going, Carina, how are you today?
Where are you today?
Carina Hatfield 00:54
I am doing great. I am in my office today outside of Philadelphia and getting ready for some crazy storms that are coming through. So yep. And I've got some surprises for you today, Chris.
Chris Gandy 01:11
Okay, okay. That'll be good. Kathleen, how are you today?
Kathleen Owings 01:15
I'm doing well, thank you. And I am coming to you from my home office just on the north side of Colorado Springs. So I'm excited for the conversation. We had some really great fun banter before this, but I wanted to save some of it for this conversation. So let's dive right into it.
Chris Gandy 01:31
All right. Cool. Zack NLC right around the corner. Can you highlight that for a moment to let's see if we can get some more people there?
Zack Huels 01:39
Absolutely. The National Leadership Conference is your meeting. We gather each year to learn from each other, plan for the future, and celebrate our award winners and colleagues in leadership. National leaders and professional staff will facilitate sessions on growing membership, promoting advocacy, and ensuring the success of NAIFA chapters. It's a highly interactive event.
We'll share best practices, plan for 2026 together, motivate each other, network with colleagues, and have a lot of fun and we can move the needle forward in a nation. Learn more at leaders. 2025.
Chris Gandy 02:12
If you don't have your ticket yet still available, be there. You can't. You can't learn from the sidelines. So with that being said, Zack mentioned about NLC, which is right around the corner. So both of you have attended so I mean, I'm sure you got other things to do.
Why would you attend a leadership conference? I mean, you know, just curious. Like why attend something like this and what do you hope to get out of it when you do attend?
Kathleen Owings 02:43
I think for me, I'll start off, Karina. So I think for me, there's a couple of things. One is I get to see my friends. So Karina is out there in Pennsylvania. I'm here in Colorado.
We were texting earlier this week, but I probably get to see her, what, maybe a couple times a year. So it's an opportunity for me to see my friends Karina, Chris, I can list all the others. And then the second is also to hear from Nyfa leadership as to what's going on, what they're looking to do, what the objectives are in the future. So it's kind of that connection. And then information for me are kind of twofold as to why I like to show up.
Carina Hatfield 03:18
I'm going to echo that. Usually I get the opportunity to present. So work on my leadership skills, presenting something regarding membership. So that's always fun. Learn from other chapters about what they're doing, what's going well, what maybe hasn't worked in the past so we can learn from them.
I know specifically Texas does an amazing and I'm like chomping at some point, Pennsylvania is going to host a Lilly alumni event. We do host them, but like Texas, I want Pennsylvania to host and put this out there. I want Texas to or Pennsylvania to host an event like a lowly alumni event that Texas hosts. So I like to go and kind of get some insider information on what they're doing every year as far as their alumni event, and I hope that we can echo that and just get some ideas. You know, it's not just about what we hear from the stage or hear from the presenters, but it's that conversation that's had in between getting to connect with other people who are like minded and find out what's going on and what's working in their world.
And I love the awards dinner that makes me so happy. And seeing all my friends as well is fabulous. So, Chris, what about you?
Chris Gandy 04:31
It's interesting. NLC is a love hate relationship for me, right? It is. It's one of those things that we go to and it's a conference that you're right, there's tons of great ideas. The challenge I've got is that when we take them back to our states, the execution of those ideas become super duper duper difficult because everybody doesn't intent, right?
You have half your board, potentially. And I'm just speaking of my experience with Chicagoland was half my board. Not even half, but two of my board members attended NLC. Right. But I have seven people, seven to 9 to 10 people on my board that are active sitting members of that board.
And so it's like playing telephone, right? It says, hey, Zack, you know, hey, the sky is blue. I was walking down the street and I saw somebody with red shoes. By the time it gets over to Kathleen, it's, hey, Chris was somewhere and he bought a pair of red shoes and he was on, you know, they he he dropped his phone like, like, so there's, there's the, the dissemination of this information that without being in the room, It's very difficult. The second thing, the reason why this is kind of an oxymoron for me, and the challenge is that I tend to find that many people I don't know about you guys, but when you look around at leadership, a lot of the people that are leading, they lead their own people.
Like, so they don't get out of their own little bubble. Right? And they, they kind of stay in their bubble. And, you know, they go and they're like, okay, we're going to talk and we're going to talk about us and we're not going to talk. They look over their little like, oh, let's see what they're doing okay.
I'm not going to tell, you know, they live in this little bubble. They even go to lunch together. They even walk together. It's kind of funny, you see people walking together that actually see each other all the time. And they, they kind of stay within that space.
And, and part of expanding and growing is the ability to embrace other and for us to learn from each other. And we don't do that intentionally. And I understand comfort. But, you know, I think it's a very difficult thing to do. So what ideas might you guys have for like the incubation of these type of ideas that force people to engage with others of other states that we may not be doing, or maybe we should consider.
What are some of the thoughts that run through your head when I say that?
Carina Hatfield 07:20
All right. I'm going to throw something out real quick on this. When and just because we were just cleaning out my basement. So I have the name tags. Do either of you keep the name tags from these events like I'm the only —
Kathleen Owings 07:35
I mean I know I don't have all, I have some, I have some of them. They're hanging downstairs with my run, my race tags. You know, the bracelets.
Carina Hatfield 07:43
Yeah. So. So I have these. And because I went to these conferences when I was a kid, I've got like them from forever. At 40 years of name tags, I need to purge, I know.
So we're going through them. And what I find from not all that long ago were pins and stickers from different states. And I know there are some people that just are anti the pins and stickers. I like to look like I work leave working from TGI Fridays. I'm just saying the flair.
Kathleen Owings 08:14
The flair.
Carina Hatfield 08:16
It was a way for people to engage. There we go. Like people to engage with other people in a like, hey, you know, hi, I'm Karina, like you. Hey, do you have a sticker from Pennsylvania? Do you have a Liberty Bell?
Like it was a way to just have fun and maybe talk to some people from different areas? Either get stickers or give stickers and like, it was just a fun, inviting way that I enjoyed. And I know there are some other people that don't, but that I enjoy getting to laugh and talk and engage with other people. That's what I want to bring back. I have a Facebook post somewhere that's like bring back the stickers or something like that.
Regarding NAIFA conferences, I want it back.
Kathleen Owings 09:05
It would be good. I mean, have some way to engage with other members because there are some folks like, I know I'll just go up to anyone and talk to anyone. So for me, it's not outside my comfort level, but maybe it's getting stickers from someone or as a kid. This is kind of silly, but I remember doing a summer reading program at the library and by doing so many things, or maybe do like a little treasure hunt, you would get those stickers. Maybe at these events there's some type of level of engagement for people like, hey, if you fill out this card, maybe, maybe it's talking to various members, talking to members from different states, getting this information, talking to vendors, etc. turning it in and you and you win a prize.
I mean, even as adults, who doesn't want to win a prize? So there might be some form of engagement that, you know, life is supporting for people who, unlike me, don't always talk to everyone, getting them outside their comfort level and having them engage with people. To your point, Chris, outside of their bubble, because I know what you're saying. People are comfortable with each other. You know, if I'm sitting at a table with Karina, we're just going to catch up on the kids and what's going on and races.
But it's also good for me to talk to new faces that I don't know about you.
Carina Hatfield 10:18
Chris, what do you think?
Chris Gandy 10:20
Well, NLC will take on a different form this year, so perhaps that will allow. So. So if you've been NLC before and you're like, oh, I've been there done that. Right. The layout and in which the program this year is designed different because you the people ask for more planning modules and opportunities to do planning.
So there's more of that and more breakout. So it'll be a different play this year. Yeah. They're going to try it to see you know how it works. And if it works we'll expand on it.
But so excited about something new and something fresh and new new ideas. So I'm super excited about that. And I'm super excited to see the both of you. We get a chance to break bread and spend some time. And you know, I always leave being motivated from the two of you.
Every time I see Karina, Karina is like, I'm gonna go work out, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. And I'm like, I left my shoes at home or whatever. And then Kathleen, just like being around her, just just give me like 10% of her energy level. I'm all good. You know?
Kathleen Owings 11:25
A little bit.
Chris Gandy 11:26
Battery pack, right? She's like, yeah, you know, I used to get up at two in the morning and I ran like 30 miles and I actually biked, like, only. Like what? Like, this is crazy. Yeah.
Kathleen Owings 11:36
So are you following my Strava?
Chris Gandy 11:39
You guys are doing a lot, a lot. So it's always good to be around you guys for motivation and reflection on some of the things I'm not doing that perhaps I should do. So that's oh.
Carina Hatfield 11:51
No, Chris.
Carina Hatfield 11:52
Kathleen and I actually have shirts and you have one that has a phrase that you have said before on it.
Chris Gandy 12:00
Yeah. I don't remember that phrase. I have a short memory.
Carina Hatfield 12:05
Making discipline sexy. Right.
Chris Gandy 12:10
That's right, that's that's right, Karina. That's right. Okay. We're doing it different, right?
Carina Hatfield 12:20
I pack that shirt for every conference in hopes that some. Someday, the three of us will wake up in the morning and work out.
Kathleen Owings 12:27
So, are you saying I should bring it to NLC?
Carina Hatfield 12:29
We can.
Chris Gandy 12:30
We can bring it to NLC. We can meet Karina, we can go for a run. But the deal is you guys can't leave me. You guys gotta actually hang around me because I'm not.
Kathleen Owings 12:38
We won't leave you. We won't leave you.
Chris Gandy 12:41
And you gotta have one of those, you know, as you run marathons, you know, as you run, there's like the mile marker and then there's like the five mile marker and then there's a seven mile marker, and then that can take a shortcut and meet you guys at like the seven mile and like.
Kathleen Owings 12:54
Cut off.
Chris Gandy 12:54
Like, let's go guys. I'm ready. I've been here waiting for you. What are you waiting for? So we can have some fun with that.
So let's shift gears.
Carina Hatfield 13:03
For a workout with you Chris. I'll do a gym workout with you. I'll give it up.
Chris Gandy 13:07
I'll sacrifice. I'll go run, I'll run, I will, I will run, I'll run, I'll run. Just so I can say I was able to keep up. It's all the.
Kathleen Owings 13:16
Problem with that. That, Chris, is you're one stride. I have like three. My little legs are going to have to be going fast.
Chris Gandy 13:23
But your duration, you know.
Kathleen Owings 13:26
Possibly.
Chris Gandy 13:26
Let's talk, let's talk about it. Let's talk.
Kathleen Owings 13:28
Okay.
Chris Gandy 13:28
Let's talk about endurance. So endurance is important in working out. And I know both of you are fairly active as it deals with your physical health. Right. And so but endurance is also important in our industry and in financial services.
So talk to us a little bit about how do you build endurance both physically and quite frankly in this industry. Because I'm sure there's times where you're tired and you're just like, man, I just I'm done for, like, but there's more for you to do. So. So how do you know what techniques are you guys using to kind of build endurance?
Kathleen Owings 14:18
I think one for me is when you do the hard stuff, you're then able to get through the hard stuff. I think if you're not testing yourself, pushing yourself to certain limits and everyone limits are going to be different. I mean, my limits are, you, said Chris, that I do crazy things. My husband does even crazier things. I mean, he is at a very high physical performance level that most people cannot operate at, which I'm amazed by.
But he pushes himself to extreme limits. I push myself to greater limits because when I am stressed at work or things do stress me out, I know what I can handle because I've pushed myself to those limits. I think many times people don't do it because they're afraid of failure, which if you're not failing, you're not trying. It's kind of how I think of it. But if you are pushing yourself to those limits, you're able to handle the stress better.
I think because if you're not, everything's going to stress you out, right? Everything's going to kind of push you over the edge. So I think that's one of the reasons I do some of the harder stuff I do. And don't get me wrong, there are times when I'm doing the hard stuff and I'm thinking, why am I here? Like, what am I doing?
This is silly, but I have that in my mind knowing, okay, push yourself harder and this will make you better than you were yesterday. So that's one of the reasons why I do that and how I can deal with the stress levels, because this can be a stressful business. I mean, life can be stressful. Then you add this business on top of it, and kids and family and everything else and it becomes a lot.
Chris Gandy 15:51
So I heard you say so Zack, we need to clip that quote. When you do the hard stuff, you learn, when you do the hard things, you learn the hard things. Is that what you said?
Kathleen Owings 16:01
Yeah. I mean, I think that's a good summary. Or you learn how to handle the hard things. You know, if you know you can do hard things, you're going to push yourself and want to be better at it and not have that fear. I think that's also the biggest thing is people have a fear of the hard things for failure, not performing whatever.
Chris Gandy 16:22
Interesting. Endurance is our topic. Karina. What are you doing to push yourself? Endure, you know, either physically and or with the business?
What do you got going on over there?
Carina Hatfield 16:33
I like to stay involved in many things. I think when I like endurance. For me. For me. Well, I mean, there's so many different ways that I look at it, but in business for me.
Being on like the property and casualty side. So we get hit with stuff. I mean and and in the financial side you get hit with stuff that's completely out of your control. I like to not have all my, you know, keep my eggs in multiple baskets. So when something goes completely awry in one area, I can shift and maybe not put all that focus.
So like it's I'm able to juggle and then also learning. I mean learning to shift learning to shift at home as a mom, learning to shift. You know, it's to keep going and make those high priority things non-negotiables and keep moving and keep pushing and just understand that it's. It'll all get done. Right.
Like, we'll get there.
Kathleen Owings 17:43
Marina, do you find — I find sometimes when I don't have a lot on my plate, I think there is a tipping point. I feel like I do have a tipping point where it is too much, and I know when I get there, but also when there's not enough. It feels a little boring. That's kind of the word I'll use.
It's a little stagnant and boring, but when I have enough going on, I feel like I get in a really good flow and it keeps me in a good rhythm. I don't know if you feel the same way.
Carina Hatfield 18:07
I use the word lazy, which my coach is trying to tell me to. I keep on, I'm like I'm lazy. He's like, oh yeah, lazy is the word I would use.
Kathleen Owings 18:16
That's the first word I use for you. It's not, by the way.
Carina Hatfield 18:20
Like I'm lazy. Yeah. If I'm not overcommitted, I'm, I feel lazy, which I'm, I'm trying to find the appropriate adjective for it. It isn't lazy, but. Yeah, I mean exactly what you described.
But, you know, I pushed my limits. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely.
I feel like if you don't, you don't know. If you're not afraid to fail, you're not gonna, you're not trying. Yeah. You're not trying. You're not going to see what.
You're not going to learn what you're capable of either. So.
Kathleen Owings 18:53
So my term instead of lazy was, you know, that's what we call people who, like, don't be a sluggo.
Carina Hatfield 18:59
All right? My grandfather used to say he was like, are you a Fraggle or a Doozer? Do you remember, like, Fraggle Rock?
Kathleen Owings 19:06
Yeah, Fraggle Rock.
Carina Hatfield 19:07
And he's always like, don't be a Fraggle, be a Doozer. And I'm like, all right, I'm gonna be a Doozer. Get it done. Yeah.
Kathleen Owings 19:15
Chris, what about you?
Chris Gandy 19:17
One of my mentors talks. The talk about you're either a camper or a climber, and so you're either always climbing. And if you're not climbing, you're going to fall. And if you're a camper, then you get left behind. So you're constantly looking at what you have on your plate and say, are you climbing or camping?
Which then forces you to kind of improve so you can continue climbing, right? So it's a little self reflection, simple, simple sayings, things like that. I think some of the simplest things, they keep the main thing the main thing. Right. And so we get all off into fee based financial planning and comprehensive stuff.
And you know, we come back to keep the main thing the main thing. Right. Our goal is to give our clients the best opportunity to show up for themselves and their families. I mean, that's at the end of the day. That's what we do, right?
So all the other stuff just meshes around that. So campers and climbers. Right. Which one are you? Right.
And so if you're measuring yourself, if you're a member, you're like, am I really like or did you climb to camp because you're comfortable now. You've done okay. You're not. You're already now. You know now.
Okay. I'm not going to go broke, okay? I've been in the industry now I'm not going to go broke. Okay. But do I want to get to the place where I'm doing 5 million of production?
You know, if I want to get there, not only I have to push myself, but I have to fire myself, and I have to reinvent myself probably 20 times over before I'm ready for that. So I'll give you guys a saying that my, my wonderful therapist and I talk about all the time is that you have to let me let me put it the right way, because if not, it's not going to sound right. You have to be willing. No.
I'll say it differently. You got to decide who you want to become. When you. Before you actually get there. So the concept is.
You got to look inwardly to figure out who you need to become so that those things naturally happen. Like for example, let's say you're a $100,000 producer. You have to think and act like you're a $300,000 producer and do some of those things. So then you can acquire and do and become some of those things, right? So you have to think and do before you become.
And I think that's the hard part in our business because let's call it what it is, ladies. You know, this business allows for us to have really good lifestyles and freedom of time. And, and quite frankly, we you've been doing this 10, 15, 20 years. You don't have to work as hard as you did the first year. So.
So how are you guys staying in the game and keep climbing like that's that part of it is like. And Kathleen, I'll throw out to you that sometimes you have to sit in the fire to feel the heat. Boom. Right? So sometimes you have to sit with the silence and the quiet so you can really think through what this looks like.
If you happen to be that person, if you happen to get that large account, if you happen sometimes you have to be willing to not be busy so you can be busy. And that's the hard part, right? As for a doer, right, that those are those hard things.
Kathleen Owings 23:06
I think it is because it's a conscious decision not to do things or not to say yes, probably for the three of us. Well, I'll at least speak for myself. Saying no is very hard for me to do now. I've gotten better at it. I've started to identify, okay, if I say yes to something, I'm saying no to other things.
And am I good with that? And I, I feel like I've gotten much better at saying, no, no, I don't have time for that. No, I can't do it. And the other part I here's where I'm not as good at, though, is not giving a reason you can no is a complete sentence. You don't have to say no because I have to work on that second part.
It's like almost justifying why I'm telling that person, no, they don't need to know why I can't help them or support them at this point in time. So you're absolutely correct, I think to be a better leader and to get to that next level. Chris, you do need to sit in that silence and maybe take a pause, take a step back, because it does go fast when you put your head down and then you pull it up, sometimes you're like, Holy moly, it's been I've been in the business now 18 years. My daughter graduated from high school. I'm like, where did that go?
I mean, I remember her dropping her off at elementary school, which is down the street from my house, and that those days are long gone. It went fast. So that silence can be reflective, I think, in a good way. Hopefully it's a good way. You said you mentioned something and we talked about this before the podcast, but you said, you know that you have a therapist.
What as a high performer, here's where I sometimes get frustrated is because people probably look at me and think, oh, she's got it all together. She's perfect. It's easy. No I don't no it isn't. And some days I don't think I do.
So. And I can start. What are you doing to kind of keep it all together and keep going through the hard times, the good times, the fun times. I also have a therapist. I think it's one of the best things I've done for myself, to go talk to someone and get it out of my head and have those healthy conversations to allow me to operate at this level.
I have a study group. I meet with a study group every single month once, you know, once every single month for a couple hours. And we just we share with each other. We look for ideas, we talk to each other. Some of them I talk to a couple times a month in between the meetings, but that's helped me tremendously in the growth of my business.
So what are you guys doing?
Chris Gandy 25:41
Great.
Carina Hatfield 25:42
What do you got going to go? I got all kinds of things going on. So I have a business coach will say, but he's Marcus Ogden. He's an amazing, you know, all around coach, which is really helped me. I keep a journal.
My one of my best friends and I send memes back and forth, which is, you know, a free form of therapy at all hours of the day and night. That's a, you know, free form of therapy. And I, I recognize I love the camper and the climber. Chris, I, I recognize that there are seasons in my life where I want to be one or the other. And, you know, the summer.
Well. And even within a week. So, for instance, this week, my youngest is in camp Monday through Thursday from 9 to 3. And she has after school activities for two hours every single night. So during that time, I'm making a conscious effort to either be doing stuff for work or do stuff, you know, the mom stuff.
Friday she's off and I'll wake up at 5:00 in the morning and I'll get my workout in, because that's what that task to complete, to make me feel good, to get my endorphins going, has to be done first thing in the morning for me, and I'll get to work and let her sleep. And then we she's having a friend and we're going to the pool and it's, you know, so I'm, I'm going to climb all week so I can camp on Friday. right? Like I and we know in our office we go through different seasons of this and it could be, you know, May is crazy or June's crazy because the kids have stuff. So we're not climbing at work because we're climbing with our kids, you know.
So I, I love that frame of reference for it. And we keep a calendar and we keep in the office. We keep each other accountable and we'll call each other out on it. Like, you know, are you. Well, we use the term lazy, but I'm gonna I'm gonna recoin now, but, you know, like, are you working today or are you just hanging out here?
And it could change. So yeah.
Chris Gandy 28:08
You know that the idea of where we are today and where we're going are two different places, right? And so we've got to be comfortable. You ask the question about a therapist so, so early in my career, back all the way back when we were playing sports in college, they required us to talk to. We had a person on the team that they at least had. You had to sit with once a week.
It was what it was. Even if you had nothing to talk, you just sat there and you ended up talking about something. I'm sure it was probably therapeutic. We just didn't realize it at the time. Right.
And you know, high performance. Right. And you're you've got you're having to do two jobs. You're having to do the job of a student and you're having to do the job as an athlete right at the same time. And you need to perform well at both.
And, you know, some kids can't get through college, you know, without just balancing their social life and balancing school and balancing the freedom that they now have. Now imagine having the responsibility of being an athlete and actually having to do all that too. So it's a lot — it's very calculated and it's very organized and it's very scheduled out. But in doing that, you know, the mind is nothing more than a muscle that we just exercise. And you guys know exercise, we build muscles, right?
So the more we use it, more we get a chance to build it. So I call it mental push ups. So when I go see my guy I go see we talk and I say let's do some mental push ups. He's like, okay, let's go. Right.
And so like it's just thinking about working out. Let's go get it. But most people and I'll just say, guys shall we. We as men see it as weakness or something's wrong. I'm speaking the guys that I know, I can't speak for all guys, but we see it as a weakness and that we can figure it all out because that's how men think, right?
We can figure things out. You know, we're fixers, right? Even when it doesn't need to be fixed. Right? And it's difficult for us to admit that we're not.
And that comes from the way in which the culture in which we grew up in right, is admitting that we are art. We can't fix it. We're not strong enough to do it. And, you know, so that whole idea of being vulnerable enough to reflect on the inside and learn about ourselves, that then we can show on the outside. And that's a really difficult place.
And so I would just tell you finding the right person that can really help you. Not necessarily the person that tells you what you want to hear, but the person that helps you. The other thing I've learned is my therapist doesn't help me do anything. Nothing. He doesn't fix anything.
I'm like, just tell me what to do. He's like, that's not why we're here, right? So, so it's very frustrating from that perspective. But the one thing that he has shown me how to do is understand how to make healthy decisions based on my past, my traumas, my patterns, my issues, so that I don't repeat the patterns in different relationships that I have, whether it's my work relationship, my professional relationship with you guys, whether it's my relationship with Zack, my relationship with my partner, whatever it may be, that I don't create those patterns that I inadvertently don't want. Does that make sense? It does.
Kathleen Owings 31:39
Yeah. And I think, I mean, you touched on a point. And that word vulnerability, I think makes people uncomfortable. You know, it's very touchy-feely word when I think about it and why Fred's my guy. But when I go talk to Fred, to me it's more of like a discovery and self-awareness.
Yes, I'm being vulnerable, but I see that for myself as a strength, because if I'm aware of myself, I can only serve others better. If I'm aware that I can't do something as well. I'm very open about telling people that's not my thing. But I think that's also from kind of I love like digging in and getting into it. Whereas most people probably don't want to.
But that's because to me it goes down to like when you go to the gym and do strength training, you're trying to break it down to build it up. Same kind of thing. I mean, they did that to me. Now they did it to an extreme. But in boot camp I was broken down to be built up.
I feel like I'm constantly doing that in my life. Not as extreme. Again, in those senses. But you're only stronger by doing that breakdown because you're going to be stronger coming out of that experience, whether whatever that is. So I'm not saying I cry at every therapy session, but it's discovery kind of breaking that down.
And then to your point, Chris, like, okay, how can I do this differently? Because we all get into those patterns. We all have our human beings. Our brains want to be lazy, right? Because that conserves energy.
So that's why we have those pathways where we just do things routine. And maybe that's habits or the reactions that we have, but I, I'm like you, I just want to be better than I was yesterday.
Chris Gandy 33:23
I think if we can do that, I think we've shown up better for our families. We show up better for ourselves, our clients. We show up better and we're more. We're able to be better and uplift others better and easier than if we don't. Right?
If we think we got it all figured out, we got a lot to got to. I got a lot to learn.
Kathleen Owings 33:48
There's a surprise we don't.
Chris Gandy 33:50
Right. You know we got some. So. So those out there that are listening and was like I got it all figured out. You know I'm doing everything.
There's somebody out there that's doing better. There's somebody out there that is more conscious and aware. And I think we have to be okay with with. I read a book not too long ago, and one of the quotes in there was. You are enough and what you have is enough.
And at the end of the period and you look at listen to that and you're like, what? Like, no, I need more. It's like, no, no, you are enough. And what you have is enough. And so once we remove that and break that down, it gets really deep.
But we're not going to get too deep because people will be like, okay, wait a minute. What's going on over at NAIFA? Let's talk a little bit about Karina. In our growing state of NAIFA, Life Happens to be a part of our ability to tell stories and our ability to connect with others. Can you share with us?
A lot of native advisors are unaware that Life Happens really under the umbrella. They understand it's there, but they're uncertain. Like so I know you're serving in a role with Life Happens. Can you tell us a little bit about what's going on over there and why we need to be awakened by what's happening at Life Happens, and need to be utilizing some of the tools that are there.
Carina Hatfield 35:33
So many things happening with Life Happens, I love it, I, I was asked to serve and and happily agreed to serve on the board for Life Happens this year and it's been just mind, mind blowing experience because there's so much. And one of my first professional memories was when I was there I was at a dinner for Pennsylvania and I just so happened I was put at a table with a Life Happens advisor. There used to be and there are scholarships, which are amazing. We gave out, I believe it was 40 scholarships this year. A couple hundred thousand dollars.
It's amazing. I served on the panel and got to read some of the scholarship essays and go through and help pick those scholarship recipients. But there's four advisors. There is marketing material unlike any other, and it is potentially non company specific. So if you're working with a company there are some companies that use Life Happens.
And so some of that can be branded with your company. It can be independent if not. And they go has all type of things, things that you can use on social media that you could use in, you know, emails or newsletters. I would challenge anyone who hasn't been on Life Happens within the past month because the Life Insurance Awareness Month material is, I believe, up now to get and spend even 20 minutes on Life Happens. Taking a look at all the marketing material that you are able to use as a Nyfa member.
It is. There's so much good information. If you can't find something that you can use, you can reach out to me. You can reach out to Brian Steiner, I'm sure the executive director, and we can find something that can work because there it's just so much information regarding disability insurance and life insurance that can be used all year, not just during those specific months. So I challenge anyone to spend 15-20 minutes on lifehappens.org and see what.
And you know, there's great calculators for consumers to help them. You know, if you're working with someone who is looking at life insurance and like where to even start the conversation. It's not company specific. It's general information for a consumer to just take a look and get some knowledge in a way that's not just you, you know, giving all kinds of insurance terms like it's something they can calculate and see what and get an idea of where. And then you can see where they're coming from for that.
So as far as disability and life insurance planning, just unbelievable amount of information.
Chris Gandy 38:33
You know there's Life Happens that's kind of snuck in the back room. Right. And it's kind of snuck in and standing in the back and we're like, hey, we see that really tall person back there. And who is that? Right.
And I think Life Happens has a little bit of that going on. And I think in NLC, if you haven't had a chance to engage, I mean truly engage, right? Not just be like, oh, we know what Life Happens. It's a video, right? To really engage it.
And I'll see an opportunity to engage with the people from Life Happens it With Karina and Brian Steiner and some of the people that really understand the role of our ability to connect with clients, tell the stories and the ability for us to actually show, you know, regardless of the companies we're with, how these products save people's lives, how they they change people's lives, how these products are actually being used. And, and, you know, there's the media and there's the general public and then there's TikTok. Okay. Right. And, you know, there's always these narratives out there.
Insurance doesn't work in this way. Insurance and blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But here's a healthy vetted source that tells the story is the right way. So I, I encourage all of NAIFA members that are listening to this podcast to engage with. Life Happens in a way that you've never engaged with before. Kathleen.
Kathleen Owings 39:59
I think it's a great resource we have because as we know, we can throw statistics at clients all day long. Statistics kind of go over people's heads. I think it's the stories that are most impactful. You know, those stories are real people who live in our country, in our communities, and they can see how life insurance made a difference. Disability insurance made a difference in these people's lives.
Whether, sadly, if someone passed too soon, the family is able to maintain a business or maintain their lifestyle. I think that's the most powerful part about Life Happens is it's true stories about true people that our clients can connect with. It's not just, you know, a statistic about 1 in 3 people might need some disability insurance at some point before 65 because most people think, well, I'm not that 1 in 3, I'm not going to be that person. You know, you may, you may not, I don't know. Right.
But the story is the most impactful always.
Chris Gandy 40:53
So with that being said, I think we're coming to a close. But you know, we always have this speed round that's kind of fun. And so let's just kind of have a round table speed round. What do you guys think? I like that.
So I know you guys didn't prepare any questions.
Carina Hatfield 41:10
So actually I did prepare some questions.
Chris Gandy 41:13
Oh you did. Okay. So we will just pepper Kathleen with a bunch of questions. Right.
Kathleen Owings 41:19
Let's do it. Let's go for it.
Chris Gandy 41:21
Let's go through a speed round, Zack. What do you think?
Zack Huels: 41:29
I think that it's time for Karina. Surprise!
Carina Hatfield 41:34
Oh, so.
Chris Gandy 41:35
So. Karina.
Carina Hatfield 41:36
Chris, we set up this podcast secretly to interview you today.
Chris Gandy 41:44
Oh, okay. Cool.
Carina Hatfield 41:46
Because you get to be, you know, the interviewer and you have been for so long and have done such an amazing job. And we wanted to surprise you and interview you a little bit. So I know Kathleen and I have both been through speed rounds before.
Chris Gandy 42:04
Okay.
Carina Hatfield 42:06
I feel like at a minimum, we should be speed rounding you.
Chris Gandy 42:10
I like it. I like it. Let's do it.
Carina Hatfield 42:13
Kathleen, do you want me to start?
Chris Gandy 42:15
Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me. Let me put on my, you know, some of my hardware that you told me I can't wear today because you're throwing them all away, right? I have my my.
Carina Hatfield 42:27
No, I'm keeping on.
Chris Gandy 42:27
I got more stuff. I don't know where my hat is, but I would put it on. But maybe I have a glass to wear on my on. My on my thing, but. I don't know. Alright, let's do it.
Carina Hatfield 42:40
Alright. Favorite vacation?
Chris Gandy 42:45
Favorite vacation? Would be let's go with a really enjoy Bermuda. I like Bermuda, Bermuda is a beautiful, a beautiful part of the world, and we can get there about 50 minutes outside of New York or Philadelphia. Easy flight up and down. If you haven't been to Bermuda, go to Bermuda.
And if you're asking where to stay, Cambridge Beaches in case you're curious. Beautiful blue water. I'm not selling on here, but it's a beautiful place. One of the most beautiful places on the in the world if you've never been.
Kathleen Owings 43:17
To Bermuda, I would like to go there. Describe a perfect day for you.
Chris Gandy 43:22
A perfect day for me would be to get up, work out. Of course, part of my day is getting up and doing it early and then having 4 to 5 meetings and at the end getting a chance to eat a steak and mac and cheese and some ice cream. That would probably be my, my jam, because those are, those are. That just sounds like a pretty good day to me.
Kathleen Owings 43:49
Wait, follow up question: what kind of ice cream?
Chris Gandy 43:52
Doesn't matter. It's ice cream.
Kathleen Owings 43:53
Oh.
Chris Gandy 43:54
It's more like what ice cream don't you like? There's only like I don't like, right? Which is like mint chocolate chip. Was this. That's like disgusting.
There's like two, two, two, two things that don't go together.
Kathleen Owings 44:06
Stop it.
Chris Gandy 44:08
Someone told me the other day they were like, there's things that don't go together.
Kathleen Owings 44:12
What?
Chris Gandy 44:13
No, there's things that don't go together. Like the concept.
Kathleen Owings 44:15
Of you.
Chris Gandy 44:16
Who made up the saying that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Then why would you even have the cake? Doesn't make sense. See? Make you think, see those type of things.
Kathleen Owings 44:26
So I still don't know about you. Mint chocolate chip.
Chris Gandy 44:30
Mint chocolate chip I can't do. And I can't do a lot of the crazy flavors that the Superman and all the stuff the kids like and all those crazy flavors. So, you know, just it is what it is.
Kathleen Owings 44:42
Okay. Fair enough. Go ahead. Karina.
Carina Hatfield 44:46
Do you listen to music or podcasts or anything while you work out?
Chris Gandy 44:51
I do, I listen to music. Yes. I listen to old school gangster rap. I don't know if that's like. Like I listen to the most ridiculous thing ever, right?
On purpose. So that I can pretend that I'm like. Like in Grand Theft Auto. Like when I was, like 16 or 17 years old. And I'm, like, doing all the crazy things and like, you know, it is what it is.
So I don't know, it's completely different in my life now. But you know, you know, I'm just living my life out as a 16, 17 year old kid, just kind of like, yes, do it, you know, whatever. So that's about it.
Kathleen Owings 45:27
I think we're all doing that. You know, we had I 16, 17 had a Walkman. So I'm still listening to like Pearl Jam ten album where I had the cassette in my Walkman. I don't have that anymore, obviously, but same thing. I listen to the most ridiculous stuff.
I'm like, if people only knew what I was listening to in my car right now. Metallica, Pearl Jam doesn't quite fit the package. But I hear you, I get it.
Chris Gandy 45:52
Listen, I'm listening to all those things I'm listening to, you know that time, Tupac, who's no longer with us, biggie who's no longer with us, Snoop Dogg, you know, I'm listening.
Kathleen Owings 46:01
Is Snoops around? He's now a grandpa. He's grandpa Snoop.
Chris Gandy 46:06
He's not the same Snoop Doggy. So that's what I'm listening to when I'm working out and when I'm working out on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturdays, I'm actually doing boxing. So if you guys want to do boxing while we're in DC, I have the place right across, not too far from the office where we can go, and I can put you through our workout and hopefully you make it back in one piece.
Kathleen Owings 46:33
I would actually take you up on that. I also work out Tuesday and Thursdays are my strength training days with my trainer, Lori, who I adore. I just had a workout with her this morning. So I began to do it.
Carina Hatfield 46:45
Love it. All right.
Chris Gandy 46:47
What else you got for me? Come on.
Kathleen Owings 46:49
Come on, come on. What you got? Favorite book?
Chris Gandy 46:52
Favorite book? Think and Grow Rich. I read it every year. Getting to the end. And then now I'm reading meditations, the stories of Marcus Aurelius, which are the one thing which is kind of interesting. Someone said, you got to read this. And every chapter is about a lesson he learned from a peasant. So if you look at kings a lot, most kings were overthrown back in the day because of the uprising of the people. Marcus Aurelius was one that not only did he serve as king, but he serves as numerous to through numerous times as a king and was never overthrown, was always lifted up by the people.
So you say, what was he doing differently than some of like King Henry the Eighth and some of those other people? And one of the things he was doing is he would disguise himself as a peasant and walk amongst his people, and he would learn stories from farmers to the people that didn't have homes to the. He would learn stories and then he would write about those and he would actually have that be part of the way in which he ruled. So that was kind of cool. It's called meditations.
That was a that's really it's really, really, really good.
Kathleen Owings 48:08
I just wrote that down. I think that's great. I think that okay, I'm going to deviate on tangent real quick. I think that's what many leaders miss is being able to connect with individuals. They get to this high peak level.
They either forgot how they got there, who they're serving and what it's like. You know, they get to a level beyond normal people.
Chris Gandy 48:33
Right. And I'm assuming that you too. So I have a challenge for you too, since you decided to ask me that question. So I'm going to ask that you guys read the book, the Inner Work.
Kathleen Owings 48:43
The Inner Work. Okay.
Chris Gandy 48:44
Between now and a matter of fact, I'll buy you the book, but I want you to read it. And after you read it, tell me what you think. Okay. All right.
Kathleen Owings 48:56
So challenge accepted.
Chris Gandy 48:59
It's called the inner work.
S8: 49:01
And I'll tell.
Chris Gandy 49:02
You in two seconds. Who wrote it. If you just give me one second. Here it is. Written by.
Because I keep it on my nifty 50 so I can listen to it while I'm. The inner work is by Matthew. Matthew and Michelle. Oh, Matthew Micheletti. It's really good.
Carina Hatfield 49:31
I'm reading let them right now. I say it.
Kathleen Owings 49:34
Oh my gosh, I love that book. Yeah, you're.
Chris Gandy 49:37
Supposed to give me the book review of that after you're done.
Carina Hatfield 49:41
It's really good.
Kathleen Owings 49:42
I heard it's good.
Carina Hatfield 49:43
It is really good.
Kathleen Owings 49:44
And she's one of my favorite podcasts, too.
Carina Hatfield 49:47
Yeah. She's phenomenal. Okay. Last question. Lunch.
Dinner. Share a meal with your favorite person or person. Living or deceased? Who would it be? Chris.
Chris Gandy 50:02
Can I have two or I just have to have one?
Carina Hatfield 50:04
Come on.
Chris Gandy 50:05
I'm just saying. Hey, listen, I created the question, so I get so, so I would have one lunch or dinner and I would have it with two people. I would have, I would have, yeah, I would have two people. I would have Martin Luther King sitting to my left and to my right I would have Muhammad Ali. Those are the two people I would have there.
And I would ask them one question. I would ask them, if you had to do it all over again, would you do it the same way? And. I think learning from them and having a conversation and camaraderie with them would allow for me to just be in. And, you know, be in the midst of people that led not by power because neither one of them were really overly powerful.
But they led through words and they led through, through, through work. Right? And both of them were considered some of the best leaders that have come together. And again, they didn't cure cancer. They didn't, you know, but they had a voice and they created a movement that others and led others.
So I would have conversations with them because I just think they've. They've become the epitome of what selfless leadership looks like in some respect.
Carina Hatfield 51:40
I love that.
Chris Gandy 51:42
You thought you stop me. Come on.
Carina Hatfield 51:43
No.
Chris Gandy 51:44
I ask me my favorite food. Can you ask?
Kathleen Owings 51:46
Well, the favorite food. That's a layup. That's a layup because that's what you go to. That's ice cream. Chris is like fair food ice cream.
Carina Hatfield 51:53
Yeah I know I was going to ask you favorite dessert.
Chris Gandy 51:55
However, I even had a mac. Someone even tried to get me to eat some mac and cheese ice cream. I was like, what?
Kathleen Owings 52:01
This is no, no, but that's like. That's popcorn flavored jelly beans. That's what that is to me. Like, they are disgusting. Yeah, yeah.
Chris Gandy 52:11
Yeah, jelly bellies are great. But when you get the ones that you're like, what was that?
Kathleen Owings 52:15
Popcorn. Popcorn. Disgusting.
Chris Gandy 52:18
So I have a challenge for you guys and then we'll close.
Carina Hatfield 52:22
All right.
Chris Gandy 52:25
I'd like to challenge you to the Nifa first Nifa sit up challenge. See? Okay.
Kathleen Owings 52:34
I need to work on my core. We're talking about my core.
Chris Gandy 52:37
So, Karina.
Carina Hatfield 52:38
I'll be last. It's fine.
Chris Gandy 52:41
Listen, we can either do sit ups or we can do plank, okay? I don't care, Oh, right. Whatever. Whatever it is, I'll let you guys pick it. But one day at NLC and Zack, we're going to film it.
Kathleen Owings 52:53
Just — we're going to film it. Oh my God.
Chris Gandy 52:55
We can laugh at it. We're not going to show it to anybody. We're going to laugh at it together. Right. And the loser, whoever goes down, whoever loses, has to donate $200, $250 to the PAC.
That's a positive.
Carina Hatfield 53:17
Can we do a split between. Can we do a split between PAC and Life Happens?
Chris Gandy 53:22
Sure.
Carina Hatfield 53:23
All right. Because it's going to be me losing, I know. Kathleen I'm up, I'm up.
Kathleen Owings 53:30
I'm. I'm in. What are we doing? Are we planking? Are we doing?
Sit up. I can go back to my sit up days I used to be able to do. Well, okay. This is old. Like I tried to get, like, 102 minutes.
I was 18 years old. So that's a long time, you know. You know, those.
Chris Gandy 53:46
Kind of sit ups, right? Those are like sit ups like, oh no they're not. Oh stop it.
Kathleen Owings 53:50
No, it was straight up and down. You just threw your body down and hit it really hard. Oh stop it. Seriously. Okay. What are we. Doing. What are we doing? Am I planking?
Chris Gandy 53:58
These are going to be if we're doing sit ups they're going to be. Zack's going to be there. And Zack's going to make sure that they're full sit ups. Like you have to sit all the way up. And I was sitting, look, these.
Kathleen Owings 54:09
Were army sit ups. This was legit. Yeah.
Zack Huels: 54:11
I'm on Amazon right now looking for a referee outfit. Right. So so if we're so if.
Chris Gandy 54:15
We're going to do plank which everybody understands what plank is. Right. So if we do. Plank. Then it's just simply about sheer. How long. Right. And Kathleen you know I think you're the tiniest of us all. Like you have an advantage. Like the longer and taller you are, the harder it is to hold plank. Right.
So. Oh, do you.
Kathleen Owings 54:36
Know what this is Chris? This is going to start.
Chris Gandy 54:41
So I want to open this up.
Kathleen Owings 54:42
To.
Chris Gandy 54:42
Those who listen to our podcast that if you would like to join us one day at NLC for the plank challenge.
Kathleen Owings 54:49
We’re doing plank. Okay, we're planking because.
Chris Gandy 54:51
We're doing the plank challenge. And to be a part of the plank challenge, you have to either donate to the pack or you have to donate to Life Happens at a. We're not even going to state the amount. You just have to do it right. And so show up with us, we'll let you know where it's going to be.
And again, we'll have some fun there. And I just think it's a great opportunity for us to laugh a little and, and raise some money for a good cause and to just just like I said, have some fun. I think we.
Kathleen Owings 55:25
Need matching shirts that say plank this. Do you like that one Zack?
Kathleen Owings 55:31
I don't know, I'm just saying plank this, I just came up with that. You guys can come up with another tagline.
Chris Gandy 55:37
Like it, I like it. So. So I issued the challenge to NAIFA members and also to my wonderful co-host here. Both of them are fantastic. We love the both of you.
And you know, we feel super honored to have you on this podcast because again, you guys are the voice of many, and we appreciate all the efforts that both of you put forth in NAIFA. And this will be fun the next year, year and a half, as we continue to spend more time together. And it'll be a good time.
Kathleen Owings 56:17
Well, Chris, I want to thank you because now you're bringing in you don't you don't realize what you just did. Like, I get challenges and I get a little obsessed. So I will be planking every day and you're going to go down. I'm just saying. And I love. It, I. Love it, I'm going to go back.
Carina Hatfield 56:32
To work so I can make money to just set in a savings account aside for the two of. You. I will make an effort to try, but I'm gonna also, you know, sell some extra policies to pay for my loss.
Chris Gandy 56:47
It's 200. Bucks. It's 200 bucks. Come on, it's $200. It's 250. 250. We're saying, we're saying, we're saying that, you know, at the end of the day, this this would be a great way for us to bring others together and for us to be able to build a community of of like minded people who who are interested in just being a part of something cool, neat, different. We've never done it before. Zack, have we had a plank challenge before?
Zack Huels 57:18
Not that I know of.
Kathleen Owings 57:19
I don't think so. Right? No. We had the walking challenge. We've had challenges. Yeah. That was. I love that water bottle, by the way. Love it. It's one of my favorites.
Chris Gandy 57:29
Yeah. So we'll have QR code to make a donation to the pack to make a donation to Life Happens and or both. And you know you can join us. We're not even naming the denomination you have to give. So it's just us.
Us three. The loser of us three have to give. Is it both or just clarification of the rules? Is it both? Whoever.
There's only one winner. So two of us have to give to the organization. Is that how that works? Is that can we get — I want to make sure the rules are clear.
Kathleen Owings 58:05
I'll be fine with that. If there's one winner and then the other two have to give. I'm good with it. Yes, let's do it.
Chris Gandy 58:11
I'm good.
Carina Hatfield 58:12
With that.
Chris Gandy 58:13
I'm good with it.
Carina Hatfield 58:14
I'm good with it. And, Chris, I will say Nyfa and the advisor today and all the listeners of the podcast are very thankful and glad, and it's just an honor that you have been the host and co-host and all the things for as long as, as it's been going on. And I was glad, glad, happy to do a little fire around on you today. So I. Love. It.
Chris Gandy 58:40
All right, well, I'm going to close this out. Thanks for tuning in to Advisor Today's podcast. We had some fun kind of roundtable, a little different flavor than you probably are used to, but just always remember that we were brought here to join in a journey and inspiration and impact and and our advisors and individuals and our communities, which we serve in every conversation that we have, is a step forward in shaping the future for our industry and everywhere we are and what we do. Just remember, leadership is not from the side, and it's not a title, it's a daily choice. Until next time, stay driven, stay inspired and always belong.
Believe and always lead. We'll see you soon. Thanks.
Outro 59:23
Thanks for joining us for NAIFA’s Advisor Today podcast series. Make sure to subscribe to get future episodes, and if you're interested in coming on the show, let us know.