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Carina

Carina Hatfield is a Life Underwriting Training Council Fellow (LUTCF), Commercial Lines Coverage Specialist (CLCS), and Life and Annuity Certified Professional (LACP). As a third-generation insurance agent, she specializes in property and casualty insurance and works with locally owned businesses. Carina serves NAIFA as a National Trustee and a moderator for Pennsylvania’s Leadership in Life Institute. She is also the immediate past President of NAIFA Pennsylvania. Recently, Carina helped develop the organization’s new online LACP prep course. Her passion and dedication to the association earned her the 2020 Young Advisor Team Leader of the Year award.


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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

  • Carina Hatfield shares her journey joining NAIFA
  • How Carina got into the insurance industry and founded her practice 
  • The value of niching down and referring out businesses you don’t specialize in
  • Carina discusses the importance of empowering women in the insurance industry
  • Techniques for increasing women's involvement in financial services and NAIFA
  • How to achieve an adequate work-life balance 
  • Carina talks about the leadership challenges she overcame as a female in the financial services industry 
  • Managing vertigo with resilience and support

In this episode…

Traditionally, a career in the financial services industry entailed working late nights and having little control over your schedule, making it difficult for women and mothers to find balance. Although this has changed with the onset of remote work, women still aren’t eager to assume leadership roles in this field. How can we empower women to lead the industry? 

As a third-generation insurance agent and leader, Carina Hatfield began taking ownership of her schedule by being realistic and honest with her clients about her commitments. She maintains that by owning an insurance company, you can have the flexibility to give back to your industry and community. To encourage other women to take charge in the field, Carina says to act as mentors and build relationships with them through associations and events. These groups and events should be casual and include trips and opportunities for wider community and family involvement. 

In this episode of Advisor Today, Chris Gandy and Suzanne Carawan sit down with Carina Hatfield, a LUTCF, CLCS, and LACP, to discuss how women can thrive in the financial services industry. Carina shares how she got into the insurance industry and founded her practice, the importance of empowering women in the insurance industry, techniques for increasing women's involvement in financial services and NAIFA, and the leadership challenges she overcame.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by the National Association of Insurance and Financial Advisors, or NAIFA, the #1 association for producers in financial services.

At NAIFA, we enhance professional skills, promote ethical conduct, and advocate for legislative and regulatory environments.

By joining NAIFA, you gain access to a partnership that elevates your performance while providing greater purpose to your professional work. NAIFA members are happier, make more money, and stay in the business longer.

Get in touch with NAIFA and learn more about how to join NAIFA by visiting NAIFA.org.

Episode Transcript

Intro 0:02 

Welcome to NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series, where we focus on how financial advisors work, live and give to their local communities and our greater financial services industry. Now, let's get started with the show.

Chris Gandy 0:20

Hi, everyone, welcome to Advisor Today's podcast. I'm Chris Gandy, one of your co-hosts. I'm here with Suzanne Carawan, our other co-hosts. Hi, Suzanne, how are you doing?

Suzanne Carawan 0:30 

I'm doing great, Chris, how are you?

Chris Gandy 0:32 

I'm good. I'm good. Today, we happen to have a wonderful, wonderful guests today, which I'm not going to steal the thunder of the show today. But thanks, everyone, for your continued support to Advisor Today podcast. Remember, we can't do this without your support and you listening to these podcasts. So it never goes unsaid that we really thank you for your support. As we continue to grow this platform with no further ado, Suzanne. We got a sponsor for today's show.

Suzanne Carawan 1:03 

Yeah, today's show is sponsored by Stonewood Financial, a new partner to NAIFA. Stonewood Financial provides software, they provide scripts and training for advisors and they come at it from the idea that you need to take your biggest risks your clients is not just regular tax risks, but you need to take the legislative risk off the table. So they do a series of summits and webinars. And so we are happy to also say that they are going to do a pre-conference workshop for NAIFA members at the upcoming congressional conference in May, which is now open for registration so we'll get to meet them firsthand. And if you've never heard of them, great group, headed by a woman as a matter of fact, Becky Swanberg is her name, and so go and visit them at Stonewoodfinancial.com.

Chris Gandy 1:49 

Suzanne, with that being said, it is a unique month, we just left Black History Month. Now we enter a new month and it is the month of women and acknowledging the powerlessness and the leadership in that space. So no further ado, would you please introduce our wonderful guest, Miss Carina?

Suzanne Carawan 2:14 

Yeah, we're happy to have Carina Hatfield here today to talk to us. Carina serves on many a committee of NAIFA and I would easily say she is like the face of NAIFA, Pennsylvania, certainly the face of NAIFA membership in many, many regards, but she is a woman that is just full throttle all the time. So we're happy to have Carina Hatfield on the show today.

Carina Hatfield 2:39 

Thank you. Happy to be here.

Chris Gandy 2:41 

Welcome. We are super excited. We're glad you're donning the NAIFA pen those who don't know you. You are NAIFA, I mean, I see you everywhere. I mean, I'm like Carina Hatfield, she's on the phone. I'm looking up. I see you on magazines. I see you on social media. I mean, you are you're doing a lot, which is wonderful. And thank you so much for your volunteership. Suzanne, I don't know if that's a word, but thank you. We can make it work. We're gonna make it a NAIFA word. So Carina, people may not know you have people made, I know who you are. But we want to hear a little bit about your story. So could you share with us a little bit about you and how you became known so much as kind of a NAIFA standout in Pennsylvania?

Carina Hatfield 3:35 

In Pennsylvania, so, well I'm a third generation agent. So, um, my dad was very involved in NAIFA, my grandfather was a member as well and it was NALU so, when I first got my license in 2005 passed my life health and annuities test. Call my dad I was so excited told him and he said get back to the office sign your NAIFA membership and I need your credit card. So drove back to the office filled the form out and at the time, I was one of the younger members in NAIFA, Pennsylvania. And so I got started right away with the young advisor team program. And because my dad was involved, he was a past president of Pennsylvania when I was in high school, just stepped in and got right involved but they were trips growing up. I mean, we have pictures in magazines of my sister and I who works in the office with me. PALU because the Pennsylvania Association of Life Underwriters at the time, we have PALU magazines with her and I dressed up at Hershey hotel and all kinds of stuff. So we were always hanging out with now my colleagues and friends at conferences and causing trouble and having fun. So just jump right into leadership following my dad's footsteps.

Chris Gandy 4:56 

So you mentioned the fact that share with us a little bit about your practice. Actually, you mentioned that third generation, you say, third generation,

Carina Hatfield 5:04 

Third generation.

Chris Gandy 5:05 

So third generations, we're gonna talk a little bit about succession and the importance of succession in our businesses. But let's go back to the beginning. Someone in your family was in the business, but that didn't mean you had to come into the business, you can did anything you wanted to, right. I mean, I understand it was it might have been influenced and suggested. But you're independent, and you have the right to do whatever you want. How did you make the decision that this is where you were going to go and what you wanted to do with your career?

Carina Hatfield 5:40 

So to be fully transparent, I definitely thought it. Growing up going to conferences and things like that, I mean, I love going to the conferences, and I love spending time with my family. And I'll share with that, because that's one of the reasons why I got into the business later on. I played the violin and piano, I was a music major, I wanted to be a music therapist. So I went to college for music therapy. A couple years into it, I have some of the common errors disease, so I have vertigo and hearing loss. And that got real bad my sophomore year in college. And so, I decided that probably music therapy wasn't the best. And I ended up being a massage. I went to school for massage therapy. I didn't even go into insurance then. I ran a massage practice for 10 years. So went into massage therapy.

Suzanne Carawan 6:32 

Yeah. Okay.

Carina Hatfield 6:35 

Hidden talents. I try not to share now.

Suzanne Carawan 6:38 

Because everybody's gonna ask for massages now. That's right. Yeah.

Carina Hatfield 6:41 

I was a massage therapist, I worked on a couple sports teams, I worked in some chiropractic offices, I really enjoy helping people. And you'll see I mean, obviously then going into this industry, but playing violin and the piano since third and fourth grade, my hands weren't working, weren't making a full-time massage therapy career until retirement. So my husband and I talked about it and it was, you know, what do you want to do with your life? Where do you want to be? And kind of like, I don't know, I don't know what I want to do. But I know I can't do either of these things. And so I thought, I really want to help people. And I really want a flexible schedule. And sometimes when we have kids, I want to be there for what's important. And I want to travel and I want to work hard. I never had a job that I just showed up to I wanted to work for what I earned. And my husband thought about it for a minute. And he said, you need to go talk to your dad. And so I had sat down I did all the research of what I needed to have an insurance license and that and I took him out to dinner and versus now I started working for him a couple weeks later as a customer service rep and eventually got my licenses full time and when he passed unfortunately, I had the opportunity to take over.

Chris Gandy 7:50 

So Carina, share with us those who are, we have numerous types of members, NAIFA, we have the financial planners. We have the insurance base professionals, we have the multi-line we have people of different walks of practice, share with us a little bit about your practice, day to day do malt multiply your specialty I mean share with us health insurance, like where's your practice at and what is your day to day look like?

Carina Hatfield 8:22 

So mainly multiline. I do have my fixed life I also have my six and 63 had to get that to become at the time a nationwide captive agent and takeover although I don't practice in that area at this point. But mainly multi-line I really enjoy small businesses, myself being a small business and my husband owns an auto garage so and it's a family business as well. So I'm working in family business I enjoy that and the small side of things our town as a lot of Main Street America, so a lot of small individually owned businesses and I enjoy working and helping them and we do some term life and things like that. So minimal planning before it goes over to a financial planner, financial advisor that I work with. But I also insure kind of the fun the crazy. I insure race cars and things like grass drag racing, snowmobile events, classic car shows, if you run into something that you're like, where mobile bartenders, like where does that go? Yeah, I find the place for it. So it's something that I enjoy. And part of that you get to do different things every day, right? So I get to always I'm always looking for something odd that somebody is calling me with. So enjoy it.

Chris Gandy 9:43 

Do you find yourself finding those niches or do you find that those like you seeking out those niches? Because what I found is that people that have a unique talent like music and things like that they tend to get in the spaces in our business that are pretty unique, where they can kind of move things around, they kind of see things a little bit different. Do you find yourself that those niches find you or you find those niches?

Carina Hatfield 10:11 

Combo, but more I feel like they find me seek me out, it's usually a referral. Right. So I mean, being a third-generation agent, our business has grown a lot on referrals, we typically don't buy leads, we do a lot of community-based marketing, we grew up. And I say, we Trish and I grew up in the town that, you know, our office is in. So it's a lot of who knows who type of referrals and they know, I'm not going to stop, I'm not just gonna say, sorry, I don't do that I'm going to find the place that it's going to fit into. And my kids are involved in all kinds of stuff, too. So that helps.

Chris Gandy 10:50 

So you mentioned the fact that I'm going to reference a couple of things that I believe that, as other NAIFA professionals can learn from, I heard you say that you refer business out that you don't specialize in. And that allows for you to be good at what you do, and also help other businesses along the way. So what mindset that has a major intervene. So I'm gonna talk about the mindset of abundance, because you have to have that, where else you're like, I want to do it all I have to do it all. I want to talk a little bit about that. But you mentioned the fact that you kind of liked the idea of doing that, right? So share with us your thoughts around that? Why do that? Why not just do it all? Why give up business and refer it out to a financial planner, I mean, give me the thought process.

Carina Hatfield 11:45 

I know, I have a little bit of recognition, maybe a little bit more than I give myself credit for but recognition of what I don't know, I know what I don't know, or I know where there's a point when I'm going to stop. And I'm just not going to do the research. Because it's not a good use of my time. And I don't want to be an expert in the area. And so what's the best way to do that, the best thing to do for my client always thinking the best thing to do for my client is to send it to somebody who enjoys that. When I worked, so when my dad was in the agency, it quickly became apparent in our office that he enjoyed doing financial advising, he did way more of that after I joined because I took over the home and auto and I enjoyed the small business side. He didn't like doing the research and trying to figure out all of those things. And I went to classes to learn different endorsements and different ways to cover businesses in different ways. He want to know, parts of that. And there was a book, I don't have it close to me. But there was a book about, finding those silos and knowing what you're good at and knowing what you're not and referring out. And sure, I mean, you can do some of everything, but then you're a Master of None, right? So I refer away to the people who it's a passion, because then it's not work. And if I mean we work for the disability insurance, if I were a disability insurance, it wouldn't be a passion for me, it wouldn't be work, because I'd be having to do that research all the time, the Medicare stuff. I mean, I don't want to do that. So find someone who wants to.

Chris Gandy 13:22 

I think learning what you don't like is just as important as learning what you do like right and doing it early on, allows for you to progress even faster. Because you're doing a lot of the things that you don't like, early on, you may not fall in love with the business the way that it does, if you're doing a lot of the things that you do like so, let's fast forward the tape. You mentioned now, let's talk about the month so it's women and the accomplishments that they've done. Third generation. Plus, I know people may or may not know you know that you are an avid runner. And you've run from Illinois, all the way to Pennsylvania and back before so. Not literally everyone but she runs and she runs regularly. Share with us a little bit about you were on NAIFA live, and you actually volunteer a lot. Why is it it's so important that we that we promote uplift and empower women in this industry, and also specifically in roles in which they can lead others. So there's a two-pronged question.

Carina Hatfield 14:41 

Women in this industry, growing up being around this industry and being involved in this industry. I am shocked that there are not more women, although I feel traditionally the ownership role might have seemed a little daunting. There was a time where it was, you were in the office, and it was late nights and all the time and just feeling like you couldn't take ownership of your schedule, I can see how that would be very hard, and especially very hard for a woman and a mom. But I think times have changed a lot. And you're seeing more people taking ownership of their schedule. And being realistic with I mean, we tell our clients, like when we're traveling, or we're volunteering, when we're at chamber meetings, I mean, wherever we are, and maybe a little bit too much, but we share where we are, we're proud of where we are, and we're happy with the decisions that we're making. And we take ownership of those, and if a client has a problem or wants to know, why are you here, instead of doing this for me, we take ownership of our 24 hours, and that's what we choose to do. And that's where I'm comfortable. And I feel like that's a mind shift for everyone, and more recently than not, so a lot of that scheduled demand for the job might have been a little hard or a little bit overwhelming for a mom is really, that's when I got into ownership. My daughter was two years old. So and then I finished my captive. So I went, took ownership, I had two years to hit numbers, and I actually had to hit numbers two months after my youngest was born, so I'm like going through and our clients, what is wrong with you, my sales manager, what are you? And I said, like, there's no right time to have a kid, let's just throw it on. Make it happen. But I had flexibility. And my clients loved it. And we all made it work, and there's no better time for, and I was talking to somebody else about this. And I feel like women a lot, go that realtor route, they think flexible schedule, I can work for myself, I can do. And there's no difference in the insurance industry, they're unique. If you're working for the right person, or the right company, you can make a flexible schedule, you can work from home, you can work in the evenings, or while the kids are at school, like, it's no different. And you can create that, but I feel a lot of women go the realtor route and men go the insurance route, if they're looking for that sales type of industry or job career. As far as volunteering, I mean, I see a lot of women volunteering in their kids things right like it, the PTA, the home and school, a lot of school stuff, as was more sports, that type of thing. But why not give back your profession? Why not give back to an industry? Why not give back to your community, your church, I mean, you give back to a bunch of other things that you're passionate about, the more you get involved in your career as well, and learning all the other things. I mean, that's where you're going to excel so much faster.

Suzanne Carawan 18:09 

I think one of the things that I always think when I watch people from their membership standpoint, like there's something that has to click there, that you're this is like when you start volunteering within your professional association, you're now playing at the industry level. And I feel like we need to tell people that more so right, like, you're now it's not just like you and your own practice in your community. I mean, you're now really operating at that state level and federal level national level. And I think that when so many people I don't know why people aren't told earlier, when they come into this, and they choose this profession, like you're part of this. I mean, the insurance and financial services industry, everybody kind of they know it's a massive US industry, a massive economic footprint. But why people aren't told right off the bat, like, if you're going to be like a real playmaker, get involved at that industry level and drive the industry forward. And maybe it's just because it is so overwhelming, because it's such a big industry, people think I don't know how to make an impact. I mean, that could be part of it. Or I just think people aren't told, just like I think most people, women don't get and we don't have enough women coming into financial services, because it's I think people want. I don't think they really know what you do. I think it's so many. So it's a relationship business first and foremost. It's not a numbers business, you know, and I don't know you know that that's a big piece of it. I think there's a lot of people are like, I don't want to just sit there with numbers all day. They think the business is really like actuaries. Right? And it's not it's a people business. If you're good at people, and you care for people, it's a great career choice. So I'm just gonna keep on that beating that drum.

Chris Gandy 19:56 

So with that being said, I'm going to ask the two of you how do we A get more women involved in financial services are interested in financial services. And two, how do we get more women involved in NAIFA'? Ready? Go?

Carina Hatfield 20:09 

Million dollar question, right? Suzanne, I've been trying and working and I think taken big strides in that over the last few years. But it's that personal outreach, I know. So when I first saw, I joined in 2005, I first was involved in the industry on a professional level in 2005. And we had a women's chamber group. And so I went there, and no one greeted me. And I went for like three months. And I really, I only talked to the people at the table while it was a luncheon, you knew that you'd have a speaker. And I only talked to the women that I was seated with, I was so uncomfortable. If I had to pick a seat, I wanted to see like I wanted to be seated somewhere. So, I just talked to them. And I probably didn't talk to them outside of that. And as I got more involved in NAIFA, because that was a comfortable space for me, then I started you know what I need to take advantage and look at this the same way as I look the chamber the same way I look as NAIFA. I need to make friends, and I need to ask for introductions or ask for what I need. But I mean, I'm a woman, so I can't speak for men if they walk into the room and feel differently. And maybe it's a personality thing, and it's not gender at all. But I think a lot of people need that personal, just one person. Right? That they know they're going to see the start. And once they start forming those relationships, then it's a change. But I know. I mean, a lot of people are afraid of rejection, they don't want to run for an office or volunteer for something, because they might then hear, oh, well, I had this person in mind. And so then it's the thought of you're not good enough. And that's not the case. Like I would say nine times out of 10. That's not the case at all. But it's just that they want, they want to be asked, they want to be invited, everybody wants to be asked or be invited. They want someone else to recognize that they're wanted not the kind of like, I mean, there are a group of people, I think that'll say, hey, I'll do that. But I think more often they want to be asked.

Chris Gandy 22:22 

Suzanne, do you have some comments on that question?

Suzanne Carawan 22:24 

I think that's a big one. And I think that, if you look at our membership, it's mostly really, it's referrals. Right. And then what's great is it's the trust factor. And I think with women in particular, maybe not always, we're not the most trusting right off the bat. I mean, we want to have a vetted source say this is like legitimate, like, we need that social proof a lot of times before we'll plunk down money, or we'll especially put it in our time into something. And so I think having more women out there to say, listen, we need, like, welcome. This is a welcoming industry to you. Right? I think that's part of it. But you need to have those trusted sources to give you that opening. I also think men play a vital role. And I think men, I mean, I said I think on something the other day, I mean, I did a little video for women in financial services for event they're having and I was let's not forget our men too, because all of my successes I've had in my career are due to men, really, men have been willing to pull me up and give me that opportunity. And so I think that's an important one, too, like, you're woman-friendly Chris Gandy. Like, it's based on meritocracy, right. And so, you support women in their careers and the whole bit. And I think that makes a big difference. That makes a big difference. So, but the one last thing I'll put in there. And this is interesting, I've been hearing this more and more, I'm just fascinated by this concept. But it's true. As you go younger, and you're trying to recruit younger people into the business, they're with their parents for a much longer stretch than like ever before in human history. So you have to kind of keep with the parents involvement. And so we were just talking to a firm out in New Jersey, and they've got a great internship program that they run, but the first day that they run this internship program, they invite the parents for the cocktail hour. And they talked to the parents about this as a career choice for their child, right and suddenly said, oh, that some other firm said, That's ridiculous. These people are like 23 years old. Yeah, not ridiculous when the 23-year-old is still fully funded, right? So having the parents buy into this as a career that this isn't some shady operation, etc, I think is very important. At the same token. I'll tell you another quick story. It's a real thing, because there still are shady and bad actors out there in this industry, and we need to get out of here. Right we need to make sure that people understand NAIFA is a place of ethical advisors and you will be safe here. I think that's a really important point for women to know, especially this is a safe space. Because there's a guy. True story. This just happened. Another lacrosse mother that I know, first, her older son just got license. He's been working like four months for this guy who has not paid him. He's been doing all this appointment setting. Right? I'm telling I took him to a NAIFA meeting. I said, like, you need to join, he was like, ah, I really, somehow emotionally connected to this one agent guy. Well, it turns out, the guys kind of skipped town. So the mother calls me and she says, hey, I need your help. Can we talk life insurance? So I'm like, sure. What do you need? And she said, my son he just got his life insurance license. He needs to go play. He needs some place to go. What kind of home can you get him? Let's see. I know about 20,000 people just a second. So I said the first thing you need to do is sign him up to be a NAIFA member, we can bring him in, and we'll make sure he never right. Yeah, it will take care of him as much as possible. And she was like, oh, my God, you know, so she's never going to forget that right? But it's the trusted part of people can trust NAIFA's. And I think that we need to emphasize that right? We're good people here. No shady characters, I think we tend to kick them from the herd. That's my quick answer.

Chris Gandy 22:45 

Carina back to you on this membership. So can you share with everyone? As a trustee, you're also kind of doing some other things with membership, what is the kind of unofficial title membership?

Carina Hatfield 26:41 

VP of membership and chapter engagement and services out something along those lines, we change it?

Chris Gandy 26:49 

You're important, you're important, you're important. Okay, great. But if you would share with everyone what that role is, and what it does, I think, gives a better description of ask you a question about that, specifically.

Carina Hatfield 27:06 

Yeah, so we've a tear of leadership. But I, at the end of the day, work with a bunch a group of leaders who reach out to connect with chapters to get some lessons on what they're doing great. So we can share with other chapters, that's probably the best part and have some conversations and things about what they need help with or where they need help or assistance, what they have plans for that they might need have questions or don't know how to do what their hopes and dreams and what they want from NAIFA national are suggestions and we're kind of that liaison and go between to make sure all the chapters are up running the way they want to the way we all want to. So we have a consistent and cohesive group across NAIFA nation.

Chris Gandy 27:56 

So membership, Carina, that's a heavy lift. Suzanne, it's a heavy lift, it's a heavy lift, in an association, our biggest issue is, I've had this conversation is it's attracting members and keeping, right. So, in the ideal world, Carina we'll start with you. What would you do or what would you say we need to do and embrace as an association to? And I'm just going to speak on the women's side, okay, so, what do we need to do to attract more women to NAIFA. To have more women, volunteer and stand up and be a part of leadership, okay. And then for women to invite other women, because I hear some of these, I have 4567, I have seven advisors that are women in our firm, right? And they talk about, they're going to brunches and they're having either having wine tasting at houses and are doing these things. But at the end of the day, they're not invited doing things that create community, but they're not doing things that also invite others into the opportunity. So what do we need to do embrace, support you guys on how to get women to stand up, hear their voice and be a part of this initiative as we move forward?

Carina Hatfield 29:38 

So my big thing is being involved in going to NAIFA conferences since I was born, NAIFA conferences back in the day we're like, I don't I'm going to exaggerate here but like a week-long, right? And so your family would come and they would have excursions. For the wives I'm going to be very like excursions for the wives in the family. And we made a vacation out of it. I mean, some of my best vacation. So my sister's best vacations as a kid are like, Where'd you go? We went to San Antonio for NAIFA conference, like we stayed for a week afterwards, we went to Denver like, so we would do these conferences. So, um, there was that right, historically. And then we went to, and when I say we, like society went to this shift of like, all work, when we're at work, we need to be at work. And we can get all business done in a day and a half, and we're going to jam pack it, and it's just going to be professionals. And that's it. And we're gonna have no breaks, and it's going to be like, no social time, we just want to be there for the business. So we went from here, way over here. And I think we need to swing back in the middle and have some of that social time and some of that camaraderie time and some of that fun time. But it also needs it. I mean, the hard part, I think is, we have 20-year-olds, and we have 90-year-olds, right? And so being realistic about an expectation of who can we expect to be there and realizing that it might not be for everyone, and that's okay, like, but let's have something that works for this group. And let's have something that might work for this group and understand, it's just, you're not going to go to everything. And that's okay, that it's not geared for them. I think a personal reach. I've really, I mean, I know, we've done some calls, even for our C conference, I mean, NAIFA specific, you know, there was a time where conferences were for delegates, or the people in leadership. And it wasn't necessarily for them, always, I mean, it was for them, but anybody else could go. Well, we, we push that. And now there's so much that we offer, and there's so much that is for everyone. But there's still this, I mean, we may pause for our state conference a couple years ago, and Trisha was calling on people, and they're like, oh, well, can I bring my office? Yes, bring your office, please bring everyone there. And so it was this personal conversation that even though they got a postcard and an email and a flyer, and a text message, and all the things, they saw all the things on social media, they still didn't think it was for them? And oh, you're gonna be there? Yeah. Okay, can we have a drink? At some point, I want to catch up with you about this, too, so I think it's definitely the personal outreach, and then volunteering. They want to know somebody else they know is there or they want to feel invited and have fun, you know, they, you have to create that. And I think a lot of that is on us as leaders, and sharing, and posting and sharing our story. And I know, Chris, you do a lot of that. Suzanne does a lot of sharing on social media, you both. And I try and do that too. And I think it's just being conscious of sharing in ways that we naturally share of all the cool things that we do so that we can attract other people that are saying, oh, you did this? Yeah, come next time. Oh, I can come? Yeah, of course, like, let's go and then following up and reminding them.

Chris Gandy 33:20 

There's this whole thing going out round about the fear of missing out. Right. And so it's almost like, we have to create that concept here. Like this is a place where you could be fun. Making social, you're gonna get to meet people. But also, here's the fun of missing out. So if everybody's listening out there, one of the things I do here and I do see is that the same people do a lot of the posting, right? And it's like, Hey, if you go to a NAIFA event, selfie, boom, take a photo and say, add a comment about how important this is, and why you decided to spend your time there. There are these little cool thing called algorithms and they run underneath the internet like little spiders. And at the end of the day, when we're hashtag NAIFA Crowd hashtag NAIFA, what I'm all that fun stuff, tends to build that pipeline bigger and bigger and bigger. And so more of our stuff gets seen. And that's part of I think, what we have to do is we have to be seen because we are not seen as much as we would like to be. We understand the internet's a powerful thing. We understand that there's certain things we can and can't do because of compliance. But at the end of the day, we're only as good as the voices of the people that are willing to actually have their voices heard and make a point of making a difference. So thank you for that. Miss Carina, you've done, I mean, to go down a few I think you mentioned is that balance as a mom, you mentioned LILI, you've been a moderator for LILI. So I'm assuming you had to go through LILI to be a moderator for LILI. So you've done that you Trustee you're on all these titles and so Do you have time? You know, so for those that are out there that are like, I don't have time to do that, because that's an excuse, right? I don't have time to volunteer to be bold in that. Here's someone who is an example of works out as a runner, is serving on 9002 committees is running her office is actually INTERCAL in our state, and you're doing all the things. So talk to me a little bit about how do you create the balance? And your wife and your mother? How do you create the balance?

Suzanne Carawan 35:35 

Like super active kids.

Carina Hatfield 35:37 

Super active kids, I also like Coach field hockey, and I make hairbows I'm in the middle of making hairbows for my daughter's gymnastics competition on Sunday. And for all her teammates, because, like, embrace it, love it, have fun. So I use my 24 hours, I do sleep if anyone wants to take a look, I wear a Garmin, my sleep is counted at all times. I recognize there are big things with me. Yes, there 24 usable hours and every day, saying I don't have time is a straight-up excuse. You need to make time for your priorities. And I do I make time for my priorities. I recognize one of the big things and it was a little side note. So moderating LILI, we were talking about balance and time. And I said, balance does not mean equal. And so a month goes by, and one of those students in the class, he comes back and he says you set this quote last month, and I just want to know, who said this? And I'm like, okay, well what it was, and he was balanced does not mean equal. And I'm like, oh, that was me, I guess you can quote me on that one. And we were all cracking up laughing because I just, it doesn't mean equal. So your work doesn't have to equal your home doesn't have to equal your NAIFA, doesn't have to equal your church or religious activities doesn't have to, none of that has to be equal as far as the time commitment, what has to work for you the balance that has to work for you is up to you is your internal decision. So I mean, I look at right now, as you said, Chris, like, I'm in the middle of a running so I started marathon training on Monday, last Monday, week one done. Um, so I have my schedule printed out. And it's on my calendar, and my calendar is 24 hours long. So, every single day, I have the time that it's going to take me with some wiggle room for my running my kids and what they're involved in gymnastics and horseback riding. We just finished basketball course violin practices, all that stuff like this that's all fit in my schedule I do I have ownership of my business and ownership of my schedule. So I'm in the office, usually at 8:30, I'm in the office till two. Then when my kids are at their activity, I've run them to all their activities. And we need kid Uber, something along those lines needs to be created in a safe way. But I kid Uber for a couple hours. And then I'm right back to work while they're doing their activities. I do a lot of crap. I'm the one that I'm cooking the meals and all that stuff, too. So a lot of crock pot meals or grilling and things like that I try not to do take out as much as possible. But it's just really I mean, it's making the time and creating that time and setting a realistic expectation of yourself. And what I do is probably not great or not something somebody desires, and that's okay, I'm not usually sitting on the couch, I'm not scrolling on Facebook or Instagram, I don't make time for that stuff I make time for sitting with other gymnastics moms and making 10 hair bows and go into the ribbon store and doing it. I make time for those things and not for the downtime, I guess.

Chris Gandy 39:03 

So you said something pretty interesting. And I just want to comment on that is that without you saying that you said you're very disciplined. You're very discipline to make time for the things that are important that move you in that direction and give you the energy that to how allows you to refuel and keep going. And I think that's so important that people hear you say that is that to be as busy doing what you do to be as efficient, effective and efficient at doing the things you want to do. You got to be willing to say no to the things that you're not willing to do to compromise those things that are most important. And so I don't think people do enough of that. I work with new advisors that work with advisors have been in the industry for a long time and at the end of the day, they're not willing to give up something to get something out else, say, I want to do that and I want to be able to go here, it's like you have to give up something and recognize that by giving this up, you still may not get it. But by giving it up, you now have the space for you to be able to invite those other things that give you energy. And so, either moving closer to our goal or further away. And every step we take every move we make every minute of our day. And so Carina is obviously that your alignment into your mission and what you want to do and where you want to be you do that and the other things you don't do. So the odds are, you're probably not a person that sits around on Netflix and you've got like 20 series already, you might have them queued up, but odds are, you probably don't have time to watch doing all the things you're doing. So I just want to make sure that people understand that is that the sacrifice and the discipline necessary to do that is the acknowledgement that these things are more important at this present time. You served also any unique role. So I want to talk about adversity. You served as a president of one of our state associations, I want our NAIFA chapters, right. Share with us in leadership sitting at the head of the table as a woman leader. What are some of the inherent challenges, the inherent obstacles that you have to overcome even more than your male counterparts? And how have you? What do you do to overcome those when you're faced with those adversity? Issues?

Carina Hatfield 41:47 

Well, so I think I have had a bit of a leg up. And then I know some other women have. And I think a lot of that was because of my dad, because I was generally generationally involved. And he spoke to other NAIFA members knew when I joined his practice, and when I joined the industry, how happy he was and how proud he was and just how much of a professional key was, if he was saying, yes, Carina you go volunteer in this way. It was because I was ready. And honestly, I wanted to run for Secretary of the State while before I did a couple years before I did. And he said no. And I thought to myself at the time, like, is it because I'm young? Is it because I'm female? Is it because you don't want the time commitment away from our office. And he never really shared but I had that a bit of that, like questioning. And when I had the opportunity to want to have the opportunity to take over the agency, the kind of the same thing. There were comments like, oh, you're young, you're probably gonna have another kid, you're not going to make this a time commitment. Those thoughts were not shared to me, they kind of came to me in a roundabout way. So I feel I had to be prepared so much more, and share voice those concerns and kind of know that they were there and know, I had a plan for how they were going to be circumvented. Like, yeah, I'm gonna have kids, but they're gonna come to the office, and I have an office manager, who's also my sister. And when I had my first child, my dad became babysitter. And that was how, and we had a great team. And I had a great plan of leadership. And I knew, I mean, we're planners. So if something would happen to me, this is the person who's going to take over if I need to step away this is the backup and who's amazing. And so these are all the things that are going to happen. And I think just always and maybe that's more natural, to a female than a male, like, I mean, I go away, I go to congressional conference, I have like triple backups of who's going to help. I'm going to help with everything in my household, because I have to, like, what if one of the kids gets sick? What if there's a two hour delay? Oh, wait, what if we have a hurricane and school closes in September? Because guess what, it's happened in Pennsylvania. Like I went to a state conference looking crazy. I went to state conference. I know I was in Pittsburgh when I was president and it was September and I thought to myself out what's gonna happen like what's gonna happen in September? We're not gonna have a snow day we're not Yeah. Flash flooding hurricane like, winds like crazy. My house had ceilings caving in and like, my kids had delays, I had to have at all times, you have to have an alternative plan for my household. So I have an alternative plan for NAIFA. I have an alternative plan for my business like, and just let, I mean, I think a lot of it, I handle it in stride. And people who know me know, like, it's going to take a lot to rattle me. And it's just going to get handled by either have it figured out in my head, or I'm going to find some way to make it work. So, you know, it's not a concern, but I can see how with other people, it could I mean, and it is a concern, and it can rattle them. And maybe that's why they don't step up in leadership, because they don't want to be vulnerable and not, I don't know, I'll come right out. I don't know how to do that.

Chris Gandy 45:43 

So Carina, it sounds like to me that you've basically said to yourself that when you don't have another option, you create one, right? So, one of the quotes that I heard from one of my mentors is when you have to you got it, right, is that when you don't have another choice, like your kids who aren't gonna take care of themselves, right, I have to do that. Right, you understand that? This claims I got to get to have to, like there's certain things that you have to do. And even through fear and discomfort, or even through obstacles and adversity, you have that knack to keep going. I'm sure that helps you when you're running to because there are times your body says I don't want to do this. And you keep you keep going. So my question for you is, you mentioned the fact that there are and I don't think I'm violating any HIPAA, and HIPAA things here, right? I don't have you sign an application. But you did mention the fact that you do deal with vertigo, and it challenges you at times, share with us a little bit about how that helps you. You mentioned it earlier, actually on this podcast. How is that helped you? And how does that empower you by understanding that when those things happen, because I do have a couple I don't experience it. I did experience it once. And it was the most insane thing ever, I'm sure hope has a world stop spinning. But yours is a little bit different. You've got it and you've had it for sounds like a period of time. So, including all the other things, right? Yeah. And so how do you deal with that and keep moving forward? Because at times let me just tell you, I'm a soft is a cup weightless and what it deals with that I just went laid down, I was like, okay, I will close my eyes when we're, I'll stop spinning back up, and I'll be moving, right? But obviously, that's something you have to decide that you know what, it's not going to define you it's going to choose, you're going to deal with it and move on. But how do you mentally get there so that it doesn't hold you back or it doesn't hold you down and take away your energy over overtime.

Carina Hatfield 48:19 

I mean, recognizing you can be and I have been in a dark place. So, I was 13 right around 13 years old when I woke up one day with vertigo. And it was a couple years of wheelchairs. And being walked, I couldn't walk in, in between classes. So the bell would ring and ever, everyone leaves the classroom in high school. And I couldn't do that because I couldn't have someone walking at me, I would just like sit in the fetal position on the ground and wait for everybody to go. And so for a while I had a friend that would walk me from class to class and things like that till we figured out what was all going on with me and try and work on that. And part of it was actually learning how to compensate so making myself dizzy, which is great when you're teenage blonde, like, teenage, blonde, female, and I'm dizzy. And so, making myself dizzy to recognize that this is how life is going to be and understanding that. So at the same time, it was crazy because at the same time I had a really good friend from church, and he had found out that he had cystic fibrosis and you're born with cystic fibrosis, but he had no symptoms of it until he was around 13. So him and I though he was finding out he was had cystic fibrosis and he was going through all of this and I was finding out all these symptoms with manures disease and finally being diagnosed with manures disease all around the same time. And we went through I mean horrific phone calls and just I don't want to be alive and him saying well, yeah, this is going to kill him. A you're going to still be alive. And I'm like, right, great, I get to live in a wheelchair for the rest of my life. Awesome, that's a way to live, and having those deep and dark conversations and getting help and seeing a therapist and all kinds of doctors and things like that nutritional program. And one of the best things, if you get to talk to Trish and ask her, she used to have to help me with the exercises. So she used to watch me walk up and down a hill with my eyes closed, and I had to entrust my sister, two years younger sister that she was going to catch me when I fell, she had to throw like a tennis ball at me, and it would make me dizzy and was fun, but just recognizing that we had a support group, and we have friends and found the people who are really going to help you are going to push you to the limits that are acceptable to be pushed, maybe a little bit more than you're comfortable with, but you know, that you need it. And I was told I was going to be deaf and in a wheelchair. And by the time I was in college, I play field hockey, I played field hockey, that I got into running and when it was a goal for Trish to run a marathon, so then it became a goal for me to run a marathon. And when I finished and why I continue to run pretty much as to a kind of like, A, I can do this, I'm not in a wheelchair, and I am where I am, and I can hear and yeah, I have bouts of it, I know I do seasonal stuff kind of brings it all up, flying, I kind of have some issues with and do the best to get myself around that and deal with it. But helps me understand and recognize that everyone comes from a place that we might not know about, and we might not see. And we need to always look at the other side or potentials for other things. I'm always, like, with the kids, they're telling me stories, and I'm like, well, did you think it might have come from this place? Or do you think that comment or that action might have come from this place? And it's like watching just agree with me mom

Suzanne Carawan 52:05 

You just be on my side? Right? Yeah.

Carina Hatfield 52:07 

Just be on my side. My husband says all the time, why can't just be on that side. I'm like, well, because I might have, I am on your side. But it just might have happened in this way or for this reason. And so I always just from a young age, I was brought up trying to be a normal teenager and I wasn't I was in a wheelchair, I was being walked in between classes I was passing out and I just wanted to play field hockey and run track and have a good, be in school and play the violin have a good time. And that wasn't the case, I didn't have, I got to do those things, just in a different place and recognize that all disabilities aren't visual. Right. And I didn't want people to know about mine. And most of the school knew. And a lot of my friends knew and knew the intricacies of it. And we're very accepting, but it is, it's something that I have to deal with. It's something I've overcome on some level, but it's a chronic disorder that I'll have forever and sometimes I deal with and sometimes I don't, but just recognizing that everybody comes from a different place, and you might not see the place they're coming from usually you're not seeing the place they're coming from. And you have to expect and respect that.

Suzanne Carawan 53:33 

They really could you're empathetic muscle there. And then what did you write? I mean, how wonderful.

Chris Gandy 53:42 

Yeah, well, I would say Carina that most people don't know that about you. They don't know where you come from, they look at you and they say Oh, well Carina, she's three generations, she doesn't deal with obstacles she didn't have to deal with. Right. The path has been paid for her. But as you mentioned, that just respecting the idea that we don't know where you came from, we don't know what you're up against. We don't know the demons you battle on a day-to-day basis. And to know that you're a part of us and you're willing to help others who are willing to volunteer their story, and hear yours. Hopefully it inspires other not just women, but other professionals, other NAIFA members to invite others to these types of communities, when we uplift each other and empower each other to become better human beings. By doing that, we become better for the industry and better for our families. So Suzanne.

Suzanne Carawan 54:46 

I was just gonna tell you time for the lightning round.

Chris Gandy 54:49 

No, I'm going to buy like some sort of light gadget it's like lightning in a can or something and it's gonna be Yeah, we're gonna get some, I'm Listen everybody we need a higher budget for our sound effects Borges that but we'll make it happen so Carina welcome to the lightning round so you made it through I told you I said are you sure you want to have a conscious fun? Yeah you got a great job so with that being said people may know may look you up they'll Google after this okay how do, so you may get some emails and if a nation is very active on emails very active on communication but we want to get to know you as a person seems like we've gotten to know you a little bit but we want to get to get the know the fun side You look like you laugh a lot you smile a lot even at the things that may not be laughable a smile level about but with that being said, the humanity part of you comes out in this conversation and hopefully people feel that. So, if you've watched any of the podcasts, which I know you've had great, they are the lightning round, we're gonna ask you questions. First thing top of mind, how we'd like you to answer it. There's no right or wrong answer just be yourself. And most of the things you'll kind of know okay, so I'll ask you questions and we'll dance Okay, favorite song?

Carina Hatfield 56:17 

Oh, the first thing that comes out of my mouth, little red wagon. That's probably not the best one. But country is where I'm at right now.

Chris Gandy 56:31 

Not right or wrong? Barbie world. We're listening to now we're in the Barbie.

Carina Hatfield 56:39 

That's what we're listening to. Yep, I spice if none of you don't do it, but yeah. It's not the Spice Girls from the 90s.

Chris Gandy 56:48 

Question for you is the hardest race because I know you're a runner, the hardest race you've ever had to run.

Carina Hatfield 56:58 

Hardest race on Arizona actually after policy or Apex conference. Went out. It was a 52k and a monsoon hit. And I ran into a rattlesnake a scorpion some jumping cactus, there are real things happy to share any conversation. Yeah. I finished a 10k in a monsoon before they fought us off the course. And my mom was out there. So I started the 52k my mom's or the 10k after me. And so coming in and then being pulled off wondering whether we were going to restore it or not. But no, I my mom was out there running in it as well. And she came in like a champ, which was awesome. But it was very scary for me. And then I think the even harder part was realizing I trained for an ultra-marathon. I was trained I felt ready so and I didn't they canceled the race at the end of it so that 10k was probably the hardest one I did. But then what was I going to do? Because I had trained and I wasn't giving up so I turned around and like three weeks later ran a 40 miler and 11 hours I signed up for it on the way home, but they are running it a monsoon with some scorpions and some jumping cactus and snakes probably the first race.

Chris Gandy 58:20 

Your funnest race that you were just like this is was amazing whether it's, I've heard there's a race out there where you run a mile and then you chug a beer and you run another mile.

Carina Hatfield 58:32 

Yes, there is a beer mile. Yeah, there is a beer mile there. They're fun. Probably the most fun was my mom's first half marathon. So my mom got into running too. So my mom, my sister and I ran the Philadelphia half marathon. My sister and I made shirts that said my mom's first half marathon. My mom had a shirt that said my first half marathon. And we all ran together and trained together because you know, the race isn't just the race. It's weeks and weeks and months of preparation and training. And we did that together. And that was an awesome time that we have together and memory we share.

Chris Gandy 59:11 

Your proudest moment in this industry?

Carina Hatfield 59:15 

Oh, there's a lot proudest moment. Getting the phone call that I received the young advisor team leader of the year that phone call and being honored and being with that group and honoring someone's a new individual every single year is probably the best one.

Chris Gandy 59:37 

Well, that's a really cool. Little Carina. If she started in the industry to young Carina in the industry today, what advice would you give her she was starting her practice today.

Carina Hatfield 59:49 

Embrace everything embrace every opportunity that you're given. And I say that to be know that you want to know and embrace that, like embrace the interview, and the things that you're comfortable with. Just learn them and spend time learning about them. And getting to know people and what they're passionate about. Because you never know when you need those relationships and how fast they will accelerate your career, making those relationships and really getting to know to know people, not just what they do, but what they love.

Chris Gandy 1:00:28 

Awesome. Last question for you. You can go back in history and have dinner with anyone in history. Whether they're past they've left us or they're here today. You have dinner with them. Who would it be? And why?

Carina Hatfield 1:00:43 

My dad, that's funny, my dad. I want to know what he thought about everything I've done since he's been gone. So it's been 11 years.

Chris Gandy 1:00:57 

Well, I'll speak for your dad even though I'm not your father. I'm sure he is proud as they come. I mean, you are the epitome of success. And we all aspire to be like you and continue your road in success. And you are an aspiration for so many that are listening to this type of podcast. So thank you so much for your time, energy and effort today, sharing with us who Carina Hatfield is and kind of your struggles, triumphs and also your challenges and in being a successful woman in the industry of financial services says thank you so much, Suzanne. Well, before we go Suzanne, Carina, do you have anything that you would like to say to NAIFA nation before we close?

Carina Hatfield 1:01:43 

Get involved, like to get involved. Find leader reach out to me and find and meet new people take advantage of this, all the people that are members across the nation. One thing I would say since I started, I always thought if I need somebody or a client needs disability insurance, and I don't know that let me find somebody. I mean, we're such a wealth of people that are willing to share and not put you down or make you feel uneducated or uncomfortable, like just a wealth of people here that are willing to help and just want to embrace everyone in this community and in this profession. So make a call reach out.

Chris Gandy 1:02:30 

Thank you, Miss Carina. Suzanne, you have anything before I wrap it up?

Suzanne Carawan 1:02:36 

I thought it was this close to not getting teary-eyed on one of our podcasts. Still got me at the end still got me. Now keep doing what you're doing, Carina. I think not only that, but what an amazing role model you are for your daughters. That's awesome. Keep it up. Make all of us women look good. That's it, Chris.

Chris Gandy 1:02:55 

All right. So for the first podcast in March. And we've got our women appreciation and acknowledgement month here on our podcast. So we're super excited about what the future holds. We're super excited again, to bring you one of the great talents. Carina is one of the great minds and young talents in NAIFA. You don't know her reach out to her. If you're not coming to congressional conference, email her or come to congressional conference and at least shake your hand, get to know her. She's a wonderful person. Just don't walk straight up to her. Make sure that you know you come like come at an angle because I don't want her passing out. We'll make sure she's sitting. With that being said, thanks, everyone for tuning into today's Advisor Today podcast where we uplift, empower and promote the voice of those advisors, those NAIFA members, and we'll see you around next week. Same time, same place. Thanks, everyone for tuning in. We'll see you around. Thanks.

Outro 1:03:54 

Thanks for joining us for NAIFA Advisor Today podcast series. Make sure to subscribe to get future episodes and if you're interested in coming on the show, let us know.

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