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April Is National Financial Literacy Month

Delvin Joyce

Delvin Joyce is a Certified Financial Planner specializing in providing comprehensive financial planning services. He collaborates with clients and their advisors to create a detailed and robust financial plan tailored to their unique needs and goals. As a Chartered Life Underwriter (CLU), Chartered Financial Consultant (ChFC), and Retirement Income Certified Professional (RICP), Delvin offers investment advisory services for retirement, education, and small business planning.


Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

  • Delvin Joyce shares his journey through the financial services industry
  • The lessons Delvin learned from his football career that he applies to his practice
  • How Delvin stays focused and motivated in the financial services industry 
  • The value of promoting financial literacy
  • Delvin talks about the structure of his practice and his leadership style
  • Navigating the transition from an employee to an entrepreneur
  • Delvin’s involvement with NAIFA and the lessons he’s learned 
  • Thoughts and insights on college sports and NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness) compensation 
  • How to recruit and train new financial advisors
  • DEI efforts in the financial services industry
  • How to thrive as a financial planner

In this episode…

Financial literacy is crucial in planning a prosperous future, but many people struggle with this skill. It takes a devoted financial advisor to help people achieve their long-term goals. How can financial planners and advisors build a mission-driven and education-based practice? 

After a career in professional football, financial planner Delvin Joyce obtained the self-motivation to launch a financial services business. By identifying a clear purpose, he structured his services and leadership around providing financial literacy and support to young athletes preparing for careers. Delvin believes that financial planning is fundamental to the future, so by building a practice that emphasizes managing people’s funds and loans, you can execute your purpose, elevate your status in the industry, and create a lucrative business. 

In this episode of Advisor Today, Chris Gandy and Suzanne Carawan sit down with Certified Financial Planner Delvin Joyce to discuss building a financial planning practice. Delvin shares his journey in the financial services industry, how he stays focused and motivated, the value of promoting financial literacy, his involvement with NAIFA, and how to recruit and train new financial advisors.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by the National Association of Insurance and Financial Advisors, or NAIFA, the #1 association for producers in financial services.

At NAIFA, we enhance professional skills, promote ethical conduct, and advocate for legislative and regulatory environments.

By joining NAIFA, you gain access to a partnership that elevates your performance while providing greater purpose to your professional work. NAIFA members are happier, make more money, and stay in the business longer.

Get in touch with NAIFA and learn more about how to join NAIFA by visiting NAIFA.org.

Episode Transcript

Intro 0:02 

Welcome to NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series, where we focus on how financial advisors work, live and give to their local communities and our greater financial services industry. Now, let's get started with the show.

Chris Gandy 0:16

Hi everyone, welcome to 2024. We're so excited to be here. Welcome to Advisors Today's podcast with my wonderful co-host. We're here for another year, Suzanne.

Suzanne Carawan 0:32 

We are here for another year Chris, make it happen.

Chris Gandy 0:35 

We're here for another year 2024. So, Suzanne, who is our sponsor for today's podcast?

Suzanne Carawan 0:45 

Today, we're really delighted. I think if any of you have maybe have heard the big news, the 2023 for NAIFA was that we went ahead and merged together with not only The Society of Financial Service Professionals, but also with one of our fan favorites, which is Life Happens. And so this entire month of January, we are dedicating to getting ahead of next month, February, which is interior last month. And so Life Happens is our sponsor for all of our January episodes, talking about again, the importance of life insurance, reminding everybody that we have free resources to put out to your consumers, but out to your clients, talking about why it's so important. And of course while February's insure your last month, we also then will go down the line to get to a Disability Awareness Month life insurance Awareness Month and whatnot. That February is all about interior love month along with I love NAIFA month. So Life Happens with today's sponsor, Chris.

Chris Gandy 1:38 

We're super excited about that partnership. And it really does bring the strength and unity behind multiple organizations and we're super excited about it. But with no further ado, Suzanne, would you introduce our wonderful guests our first guest of 2024?

Suzanne Carawan 1:55 

Yeah, we're delighted to have back one again another fans day right? Delvin Joyce out the nose, Detroit, the people choice, one a longtime NAIFA member, a former trustee, Delvin and so we're excited to welcome Delvin back he's been a little out of pocket in the Nathan world for a while. So we're happy to have you back Delvin, see your smiling face. Sorry that your alma mater didn't win their ball game. But, I'm sure we'll get into that as well. And talk about some of that. So welcome Delvin

Delvin Joyce 2:24 

All right, awesome. Thank you, Suzanne. And Chris, what a wonderful introduction. You had to bring up the bowl game, you are on a roll until you brought it the bowl game, but very delighted to be here excited to be the first guest that's 2024. And also equally excited that you use my nickname that people's choice of fantastic.

Chris Gandy 2:44 

So Delvin let's jump into it. Let's have a conversation. Tell us a little bit about there are a lot of people that have joined NAIFA recently because of the merger and there's a lot of people that might have known you or heard of you, but maybe never heard you speak. Can you tell us a little bit about your story? And ultimately how you got in the financial services industry? Maybe your story could inspire others?

Delvin Joyce 3:16 

Yeah, so my story I don't think is dissimilar to a lot of people in that I kind of found the industry accidentally, right. So I actually played college football at James Madison University, the greatest university on the planet, ironically, did not have an opportunity to play at the next level, which was the NFL right out of college. And so I had a good friend who was working at John Hancock in Washington, DC metro area in Northern Virginia. And he referred me and so I went on that interview, not really knowing what a financial adviser does what an insurance agent does, what long-term Garrett shirk was, but I got the job somehow. And it just fell in love with the industry. And then of course, as fate would have it, I did have an opportunity to go back and play professional football, so played professionally with the New York football Giants. Career was cut short after three years because of injury. And so because I knew about this wonderful industry, I knew that I wanted to come back into this industry because I truly felt like I could make a career here. I went and interviewed with several firms. The firm that I felt like would give me the best opportunity to be successful was Prudential. I always say people go to work for people, not for companies. And so the leadership that I met at Prudential at the time really made me feel like they were going to be invested in my future and my success. And so I joined Prudential and 17 years later, here I am.

Chris Gandy 4:44 

17 years in, congratulations number one on being here. 17 years, right. If you're on a sports team, like you mentioned, you get a chance to come back and keep playing. Hey, every time that the phone rings, you're uncertain But congratulations on 17 years, we look forward to seeing 17 more out of you. So, share with us a little bit about you mentioned sports in your life. And I always say that sports have a URI parallel with the reality of this business. Can you share with us a little bit about what sports instilled in you, that has helped you along the way? Whether it's through rejection, or it's overcoming obstacles, or it's just being focused and discipline? What did sports do for you? And what how do you use those now 17 years in to keep you focused and keep you humble and driving to do more?

Delvin Joyce 5:49 

Yeah, I love this question. I love it. Because I personally believe that athletes, and people who have an athletic background already have a tremendous advantage in being successful in our industry. Part of it is, what I believe sports taught me was something that I call sticktoitive. And so if you've heard me speak as one of my favorite words in the English language, but sticktoitiveness essentially means that you just don't give up when things get hard. And I think we all on this call know that, this industry is not easy at all, just like professional sports. And if you're someone who has achieved a level of success and athletics to be one of, how many people in the NFL 1700 In a world of 7 billion. So if you're someone who has achieved that level of success, you obviously have some intangibles that will bode well across multiple disciplines of life. And so I think just the opportunity or the spirit of never giving up, not thinking that any challenge is too great. I think those are all things that have served me very well in this industry. And believe me, there has been times where I wanted to give up, right? I think we all have those days, just like you had times Chris, as a basketball player, where you were running suicides after practice, and you want to throw up and mail it in. Right. But that sticktoitiveness kept you in the game.

Chris Gandy 7:14 

So you mentioned the spirit. Share with us a little bit about inspiration. How do you get inspired to every day do the deal? I'd love to hear that from you like well, how do you get motivated? How do you stay focused on what you need to do on a day-to-day basis? I mean, obviously, yeah, 17 years, you've had some success, right? So, how do you stay with it? How do you stay motivated?

Delvin Joyce 7:49 

Chris, I think it all comes down to purpose. And if your purpose is strong enough, it will drive you to stay motivated, long after the feeling and the excitement and exuberance has left you. Right. So I have heard some of the best pep talks from coaches throughout my years and athletic, right. I've been playing sports and the little kid, right. And I remember being a kid being a high school player, for instance, and the coach gives us this wonderful pep talk. And then as soon as we go out on the field, we get hit in the face. And there's got to be something internally, that forces us to continue to get up and go long after that pep talk has left our brain. And I think the same is true for our industry, a lot of people get fired up, they come into this industry, they met some manager that told them they can make a bunch of money in the business, they're excited about the business, and then the business punches them in the face. And if they do not have that internal purpose, something that is mission-driven about why they are in this industry, then it becomes very easy to give up. But if you have a mission-driven practice, like I believe we do on our team, then each and every day, irrespective of what happens in your practice that good things or bad things, you're gonna wake up and you're gonna perform to the best of your ability.

Suzanne Carawan 9:08 

So what is your mission for this? Yeah, what's your mission Delvin? What's your practices mission?

Delvin Joyce 9:13 

Yeah, so we are big on education. And for us, we want to improve the financial wellness of our clients, while promoting prosperity in the community through financial literacy and education. And we believe that there's a knowledge gap for a lot of people in our industry. And so that educational piece and going out and preaching the gospel, that is financial wellness is really a big part of what we want to do.

Suzanne Carawan 9:41 

So how's your group get to that point? How do you measure it? That's another one I'd say, how do you measure that?

Delvin Joyce 9:49 

Yeah, so I love the measurement piece. I'm gonna come back to that. But one of the things that we have done very strategically is we are very intentional about partnering with organizations, that will give us an opportunity to come out and talk about the things around financial wellness, financial literacy and financial planning. And so some of those organizations are places where we can impact people that we consider first generation wealth, or that identifies for a generation wealth, because for us, that has been the place that we've identified, we have biggest impact. So a lot of our clients did not come from money, they're not going to inherit money, but they have goals and objectives to create intergenerational financial security for their families. And so we are the intersection of that intergenerational financial security, because we help them to create pathways to make those things happen.

Chris Gandy 10:48 

So, Delvin, if you don't mind me asking, can you share with the audience here how your practice is structured? Do you have partners? Do you have associated advisors? Do you have staff? Talk to us a little bit about that.

Delvin Joyce 11:03 

Yeah, so we are a four-person team, we're based in Charlotte, North Carolina, we have clients all over the country, as you would imagine, I hate to say that the pandemic was a positive thing for any of us. But the one positive that came out of the pandemic is that we've been able to reach a broader array of clients, and more places, because people are so much more comfortable having conversations remotely, and virtually. But so our four-person team, we have two other financial planners on the team. And then we also have an office manager who is our onboarding specialist. So we are a financial planning first firm, we lead with financial planning, clients do not join our practice as a client unless they complete a financial plan with us first. And so our office manager helps us to get those clients on boarded. And then the three of us on the financial planning side, we have different disciplines where we worked in creating the financial plan, but that's really how the team is structured.

Chris Gandy 12:06 

So you left a team, you were working within a team. And now you've created kind of a team within a team.

Delvin Joyce 12:17 

Yeah, I am definitely a team person. The one thing that I did say of my 17 years, I spent 10 of those years and leadership. So I was in management with bronchial. And so there are also some things that I learned on the leadership management side, that really helped me to be able to lead a team right now. And so while I often fantasize about what my practice what look like, had, I never gotten tripped in the management, right? I do believe that there are a lot of things that I learned throughout those 10 years in leadership, that have truly helped me to ascend to the level that I am now, especially in running and managing the team as the team lead.

Chris Gandy 13:02 

So, so interesting, I always say this is that you get to a place in your career where you're at the crossroads, right? And at the crossroads where someone says, Hey, I think you have tapped me on the shoulder and say, hey, I think you'd be good at doing this. And again, that's the hope sets the dreams, right? You're like, Oh, I see that. That to me, that defines success, right? Because in your mind, you're saying, hey, yes, that's what that's what it looks like. But at some point, similar to probably me, I would tell my story, but this is the Delvin Joyce story. But I think it's important to understand that decision, right? At some point, you made a decision to say, hmm, I got to do what's best for interest. So myself and my family, and what's going to make sense in the future, I'm going down this path, and then what made you come back? Because it sounds like your advisor kind of doing your thing. What join the summit, got to did that thing. And he came back to being the kind of advisor and kind of a producer group type of scenario. That's the main that's kind of what you described a little bit, right?

Delvin Joyce 14:08 

Yeah, totally. You hit the nail on the head. I mean, I became an advisor in 2006, right out of the NFL. I did very well, my first year in the business. Now, Chris, you know this, if you do well in this industry, and you're at a big career agency, the first thing they're going to do is tap you on the shoulder and say, hey, you should go into this management program, you should be a manager. And the reason they kind of tap you on the shoulder early in your career is because they also understand that if you have a chance to build a practice, you've probably never taken that job, right? It's like am I have an opportunity to build this practice with residual income, and I get to make my own schedule and do all these great things and make the income that I want to make, you're probably not going to take the management job in the future because now, it's a whole different value proposition. But early in your career, it kind of makes sense. And so, I've always been Someone who consider myself a leader, I wanted to be in that leadership role. And I'm so fortunate that I had that opportunity because I met so many mentors throughout that 10-year journey that really, really helped me to learn this industry in the business. But ultimately, I became a managing director with Prudential in South Florida. So I ran the South Florida market, the territory was essentially Bureau beach to QOS. So I always say right around the time that LeBron took his talents to South Beach, I also took my talents to South Beach, right? So, but I went down there, and my family and I, we packed up left, Charlotte moved to South Florida for four or five years. And ultimately, we decided that we wanted to raise our kids closer to our family, we wanted to live back in Charlotte, North Carolina. And so, I left that job as a managing director with that nice cushy income and all the things that come along with it, and decided to take a chance and go back into production with no book of business, no assets under management, and move back to a market that I had not lived in and six years. And so basically started right, that's great. Yeah, as a rookie all over again, I started my practice from scratch in 2017 built the team. And fortunately, over the last six years, we've increased our production year after year after year. And I say that humbly. Because there's a lot of things that have gone right. And we've gotten a lot of help from a lot of people.

Chris Gandy 16:31 

So the part of that is the decision. You had to make some tough decisions. Right? Yeah, you had to make the tough this some tough decisions. So share with us, your mindset, when you made that decision, when you said, you know what, you were a little bit off? You were disturbed that day? Or was it kind of like, you know what, I think, long term, I could see the path of success or what was the thing that led you back to it? Because at some point, you had to say, this is a gut check. This one's a hard one. You had to talk to some other people in the family too, because I know, your radio and say, you had like, what was the process of unpacking that?

Delvin Joyce 17:23 

Yeah. So you said it was a gut check, it was absolutely a gut check. Because you know, when you go from, hey, I'll make an X amount of dollars at the managing director to, I'm going to leave that and start working from scratch with no business, I have no income. But I also have an office manager that I've hired because my office, my assistant in Florida, moved with me to North Carolina, to be my office man, right? So not only do I have no income, I have someone else's income that I have to pay. I also opened my own office. So now I have rent that have to pay for my office. Because Chris and Suzanne, I don't believe in doing it small. So we're gonna do it. Let's do it big, right. And sometimes you have to do things before you're actually ready to do. And so it was truly a gut check to make that transition where I have all these expenses, no income, no practice. But there's a couple of things, right. I mean, I fortunately, had parents who I always say, my dad told me, I could be anything and do anything. And my mom gave me the discipline to actually do it. And I'm from the south. So when I say my mom gave me the discipline, y'all know what that means, right? But I absolutely knew that, although it was going to be tough, there was going to be some sleepless nights, I was gonna blow through a bunch of my savings. I always felt like, I could do it, and I could be successful doing it. And again, thankfully, six years later, with the support of my wonderful wife, and my children, and my entire team, we've gotten the practice to a really good place.

Chris Gandy 19:08 

Good, good. Well, congratulations on the journey. Because obviously, you've had to go through that, there's the emotional cycle of the journey and that is the uninformed and the uninformed and then the pessimistic and then oh, the old ass moment, right when we get there at oh, my goodness moment. We're there. And now how do we get out of that? Right? And so you went through that? Yeah, no, dude. Oh, no, the martial cycle of change. There's a whole dynamic that it looks like but Delvin congratulations on that and let's talk a little bit about service over self-okay. So, you served in a role with NAIFA as one of the national trustees and you served in it for a period of time. Tell us why you raised your hand to say, I want to serve. Can you share with us that story?

Delvin Joyce 20:08 

Yeah, I love my NAIFA story and my NAIFA's journey, because I would say that I was not dissimilar to a lot of NAIFA's members. And that I just, someone said, You got to be a NAIFA member. And so I became a NAIFA member, and I just paid my dues. And I was happy to pay my dues every month, but it wasn't necessarily active. I wasn't really going to meetings. And I didn't really have what I call that NAIFA religion, if you will. And it wasn't until I was I was managing director down in South Florida, met a wonderful group of people down at NAIFA, Miami, Don Brown or seller, Jim booters, like some of these wonderful, wonderful NAIFA, people, Mark Forgey own and they encouraged me to go to my first ever NAIFA's congressional conference, right, the NAIFA's client. And I just remember sitting in a room with a legislator. And we were explaining to her the value of life insurance. And without giving any true specifics about the nature of the conversation, I could tell that she did not understand what our industry was, what we do, how life insurance works, how it benefits her constituents. And so I had that lightbulb moment, I said, wait a second, this person is responsible for making legislation or laws that govern our industry, and in charge of making decisions for these constituents who are industry benefits. But she truly did not have an understanding of how it all worked. And then we went into another legislators office, and this guy had no idea as well. And so that's when the light bulb truly went on. That's when I truly understood word NAIFA's fits into the grand scheme of helping to make sure that our industry is safe, number one, and number two, that we continue to be able to serve our clients. And so that's when I really got super involved, we came back, I joined the board of NAIFA Miami immediately, and ultimately got an opportunity to serve on the national board.

Chris Gandy 22:22 

Wow. So like you said, if you're going to do something, you're not going to do a small, right?

Delvin Joyce 22:28 

That's right. I mean, we only live once, right? So go hard or go home.

Chris Gandy 22:33 

So what did you learn during that time of service, what did you learn about the industry? And what do you learn about yourself? I mean, a big thing is, I like to say to advisors I work with or that I mentor, or coach or even peers of mine, is that one of the best things about this industry is you get a chance to try and discover the things you don't like. So you can do more of the things you like. Yeah. And so tell us a little bit about what you learned about yourself. Not necessarily the but what did you learn about yourself being in that role? Because there's a level of responsibility that comes along with being the trustee from a state and people are calling you say, I need this, and I need this. So I need this, we need you to sit on this committee, and you're okay, wait a minute. And then how did that in your practice? Because that is part of we ask people to step up. This is not a paid role. Right.

Delvin Joyce 23:35 

It's not where did all the checks go?

Chris Gandy 23:39 

Check's in the mail? But though it is it is service over self. So how did you balance your practice in two ways you learned about yourself while you served in that role?

Delvin Joyce 23:52 

Yeah, I'll tell you the first thing that I learned is that, to whom much is given, much is required. And I do believe that the NAIFA trustee role is one of active service. And I would say that I probably did not do a great job balancing the two, unfortunately, for me, my time in service correspondent with that transition that we're talking about. Right. So going back to North Carolina, and having to build a practice from scratch. And so I probably didn't do a good job. But I love that the fact that you asked the question because this leads to something that I'm still working on personally. And that's being able to say no. And I think for a lot of us who have a service mindset, we have a hard time saying no. And I was introduced to a book called Essentialism. I actually read this book several years ago. And I think it really helped me to understand that by saying yes to a lot of things, I'm actually saying no to a lot of the things that are really important to me. And so Oh, this this book Essentialism really helped me to conceptualize what I really want my service level to actually look like. And so it allowed me to really truly focus on building my practice, but also finding other ways to be able to serve the NAIFA Enterprise and all the other things that I like to help and serve. So I love the question because really, my NAIFA service truly helped me to learn about, what's important to me, and how to make sure that I'm upholding those commitments.

Suzanne Carawan 25:37 

Very good. I would say also, that one of the things that I like about our story together Delvin, because when I got to NAIFA Yellen was probably one of the first trustees that I met. So he gave me a good sense of what trustees can tend to do. And I didn't know any different, so I thought you're doing a great job, but, but one thing I do like is that even though, I think people sometimes think you have to do these huge volunteer roles. So I just want to point out that like, Delvin, still, like we tapped him once a quarter almost to be part of our future leaders program and kicks talk to university and college students. And it's kind of a little micro volunteer role he pops in, he talks about all the different aspects of the industry and areas, you might want to get involved. And then he's out, right, because he's in the practice. And so those types of things have huge impacts, I just want to do a little shout out there and say, thank you for staying involved. And we can always count on you to kind of sign a letter or lend your voice to an advocacy effort, etc, that makes a huge difference.

Delvin Joyce 26:37 

And thank you for including me in that because for me to have an opportunity to talk to young people about the wonderful opportunity that is our industry that fills my cup, right. So I may have times where I'm like, Man, this sucks, I'm down in the dumps, something didn't go right, I didn't get that big client that I want. And then I get a chance to talk to these kids that my cup is full. So I do appreciate that opportunity as well.

Suzanne Carawan 27:03 

And I'll do one other plug on that. I haven't felt either you, this is like breaking news. But one of the things your point is that we know that we know at the high-level financial services as well as the athletes, but why aren't we going out and specifically addressing athletes? So we're gonna go out now and we'll take this as part of our clip and really talking about these stories, because that mindset, the practice, right, the discipline, it just makes for a quicker ramp time in this industry. And then why don't we just do that and say, hey, hey, all across athletes is great stuff. The last thing is because the NCAA has changed, and you can now of course, have NFL money, right? These athletes that are coming into money are coming sooner, right? And it's changed the nature of when athletes need that financial literacy and support. So it's like, you got to dip down now on lockdown and high school level, and just for the athlete, him or herself to be on that good path. Right. So just kind of some interesting changes, I think you to specifically really understand. But I think what I found especially being a mother of a D, one athlete is the financial advisors haven't seen yet. I'm just gonna throw that out there as other little nuts opportunities. Right.

Chris Gandy 28:11 

So Delvin, let me ask you a question about your journey. When you were doing it, they didn't get paid. Now they have about two opportunity to get paid. Can you give us your perspective as a player? Now looking back or looking at the game today and how it's changed. I'm sure people would love to hear your perspective on this and the impact of NIL. Wait, also the transfer portal.

Delvin Joyce 28:49 

Yeah, so, man, I'm so old school on this. And I hate to sound, I'm 45 now, so I hate to sound like the old curmudgeon guy in the corner. But when I went to James Madison University, I was an un-recruited uninvited walk. Right? So I applied to that school like any other student, I got in academically. And I went to the coach's office and said, I'd love to an opportunity to play football and they gave me an opportunity. And for me, I would have played football for free for that university. And by the way, I didn't come from money. I always say my parents had a tiny house before it was cool, right? So, I didn't come from money. I couldn't use the money. But it was the honor of a lifetime for me to be a member of that football team. It meant the world to me. And the opportunity that I also had once I earned a scholarship to now not have to pay for this wonderful education that I'm gonna get. And so I never ever thought that the university owed me anything or that anyone owed me anything. But I also went to James Madison University. I was not at The University of Alabama or one of these SEC schools where the NCAA and ESPN and all these people are making all this money off of these players, right. So I also am very sensitive to the idea that these players are making universities and broadcasters and television stations wealthy off of their back. So I am sensitive to that. I guess the only thing that concerns me right now with NIL, and the transfer portal, I think, one of those without the other, we'd probably be okay. The fact that we have both of those together has created this perfect storm, where I do believe that it's putting adults who may or may not necessarily have a lot of these kids best interests at heart, it's giving adults the opportunity to take advantage of a lot of kids. And I just don't know that that is the right thing. I do believe that players should get compensated, especially their name, image and likeness. But I also believe that there's a lot of funny business that's going to go down as a result of what I see is a lack of leadership, from the NCAA, and whoever is making the rules and regulations around these things.

Chris Gandy 31:22 

Well, the NCAA was interesting, when the NIL first launched, they left it up to the universities to figure out how to manage it.

Delvin Joyce 31:30 

Well, of course they did, because I mean, listen, I think this is the other unfortunate thing from a fan perspective, because I don't even consider myself a football along. Well, I am a fan of JMU football, right? In college football in general. And as a fan, the worst part was that the NCAA said, all right, you know what, players can get paid, but we're not paying them. It's like, we're not paying them. ISP. It's not paying. So you guys in the university campaign, the fans need to pay him, right. And so like, like, man, as a fan, now I got to take, I'm already given money to the school, I'm giving money to the athletic program. Now I got to give money to this collective so that we can keep our quarterback, we're going into the Treasurer's Report. I was like, On what planet does that even make any sense? So? Yeah, I'm sorry to get on my soapbox. But you guys asked a question.

Chris Gandy 32:22 

I think it's a relative question. Because it goes back to leadership. One of the things that we realize is that, for us to be able to move forward, we can't do the things we did in the past. And I think the NIL is a great example of something that is very positive. It could turn very negative if it's done incorrectly. Right? You combine it with the transfer, like you said, if the transfer portal was not there, I think it would look a lot different it would smell...

Delvin Joyce 32:56 

NIL would look a lot different.

Chris Gandy 32:57 

It look a lot, right. And if it's a transfer portal was there, and NIL didn't exist, it would look a lot different. And you're right. And you're right. So perhaps the NCAA, which I'm not sure they would ever do, gets involved to say, let's make some uniformity around the way this happens, and give some guidelines to it. Because essentially, what's going to happen is it's going to become professional sports, where it's going to be like the Yankees. The people with the richest alumni are going to be the ones with the best team. Yeah, that's how it's going to eventually end up if they don't make some changes.

Delvin Joyce 33:00 

Well, listen, if you go play football at Utah, you get a truck. I mean, the entire team gets a truck. Like how does James Madison compete against in the recruiting game? Yeah, it's like, come to Utah, get a truck, everybody, every single player on the team? Anyway, I just think it's really unfortunate that, you know, recruiting in college athletics has always been a place where it gave adults who should be acting in a fiduciary role. And having their players best interests at heart. And a lot of cases did not. And now they have a bag of money that they can use to that end. So I just hope it works out.

Suzanne Carawan 34:23 

Yeah, taking that whole paradigm and putting it back in financial services. Do you see a corollary there? Because what I've been talking to a lot of young advisors, etc, right? And what they're kind of in this thing where, hey, I want to kind of happen to financial services, but I'm kind of in the gig economy, too. Right? And so they're like, how can I make it but I want to split my time. I don't really want to be All in, but it's a different it's completely different. It's a different landscape of recruiting, right, these young advisors and in trying to get like you're trying to say, like, go into this old school career system. Are we in the same boat where the company has had the big money and can do the whole thing? Maybe they're at a disadvantage. And then the others or, or maybe managers also recruiters need to think differently about who they're bringing in to financial services, you think that change is happening, they're fundamentally in the crop that we're trying to bring in. And is it old school when we're trying to bring them into are we in kind of the financial services NIL, trends transfer portal landscape world now.

Delvin Joyce 35:21 

I love that. I love the analogy. I do believe that in a lot of ways, in order for us to recruit a new generation of advisors, you really can't do it in the solo advisory capacity, the way that we did it in the past, you know, the way that we did it in the past is, Chris, you show up with your top 200 names, and you're gonna start making these phone calls and your manager is gonna go out with you, and you're gonna either sink or swim. And we're gonna have an 11% industry, four-year retention rate, and blah, blah, blah, like, I do not believe that that is a recipe for success. The way that I brought on the most recent member of our team, her name is Latasha Anderson, she's a financial planner. Not a NAIFA member yet, but she will be. But we hired her in 2020 as our paraplanner. VA, she had no experience in our industry, she actually had an accounting background, but no experience as a financial advisor at all, hired her as our paraplanner taught her the industry taught her all about financial planning through the lens of paraplanning, for financial plans for our clients. She did that for a year and a half, we paid her a salary to only be a paraplanner. And to learn. Now, we transitioned her in the middle of last year to a full-time financial planning role. But she still does not have any business development requirements. Her goal is to help us create and write all of our financial plans for our teams, eventually, she'll be able to do business development, but not before she learned the industry. And I just think that any new person coming into the business, especially a young person, they really need to team up with an experienced adviser and learn the business. And we can't tell people write down 200 names and go out and call them and you may or may not make a living doing that, especially to the extent that you're not going to be able to have a sustainable practice by doing it that way either. I'm very partial to financial planning. I'll explain what that looks like if you guys want me to, but I'm just very partial to financial planning, being the key for people to be able to survive in this industry.

Chris Gandy 37:44 

So Delvin if I'm listening to you right, the way what we've done in the past won't be the way we make it in the future. Got it. There are people now coming into the industry saying how much you got to pay me to do the business before I ever really commit to the business and see if I can actually make it right. That's happening. And then the people that are in the business that have been in the business for 20 30 40 years, they're on their way out. Right? I saw a statistic the other day that, financial advisors or finance people in the financial world that one out of every seven will retire in the next six years. One out of every seven and I'm not sure that's how many people are coming into the industry. And we started looking at those statistics there's a lot more people leaving than are coming in. So obviously, we need more people membership, membership, membership, right? We need more people in the industry we need more people drinking the Kool-Aid, and we need more people thinking outside the box about their career path. Like you did say, hey, listen, maybe there's, and I believe, I believe there is a hybrid role Delvin, it's just the company's hadn't gotten through their head yet, right, the player-coach role is a real thing. Right. And some companies are stuck in that silo of you're an advisor, or you're a manager, right, that space and then there's other companies that are like, trying to do a little bit of both. But you don't really have any params you got to create it on your own structure on your own. And then there's, I think the middle of that road looks like a combination of being able to produce like you did like a producer type of group with support resources, the ability to be able to attract other professionals, other young professionals into the business to help grow it build it develop it. I think there is a merger of that that will happen eventually. What are your thoughts around that? Why say you got playoff as a deep as well you can play both I mean, quite right.

Delvin Joyce 39:59 

Yeah. I think you're absolutely spot on with that. And I think if you look at some of the bigger career systems, right, a lot of those big career systems are getting more away from that middle management position, and moving more towards teaming. And I do believe that that's going to result in a more productive new advisor, it may not result in the same level of numbers of advisors, but the advisors that actually come into the practice, because of the way we're bringing them in now, I think they're going to be much more productive. And if we're looking at it from a productivity standpoint, that's probably a better avenue. I will also take that opportunity, Suzanne, just to say that, if we need more numbers, I think that's also where the DEI conversation comes into play. Because there are people that may not necessarily have found this industry. And the DEI efforts of organizations like NAIFA, and some of the DEI efforts at companies and career agencies, I think those programs are designed to go out and say, hey, here's a viable career for you to make inroads into an industry where you can make a living, which I think is laughable that DEI is such a bad word now, because for me, it just really means that you're going out and you're trying to create a space for more people to be in this wonderful industry. And I am saddened to see that that's gotten such a bad rap lately at the media.

Chris Gandy 39:59 

Well, you've got to, I think, your transition now just add to that, I think, what the George Floyd, I'll just mention this, I think what happened Delvin and this is an observation from my perspective, is that it put it on everybody's radar screen, that this is something that needs to be done. And then just like you have children, and I have a child when I tell him to do something. And when I tell him to do something, he does the exact opposite of that, because he feels like I'm giving him I'm telling him what to do. And because of the incident, it was kind of forced down everybody's throat that hey, these companies now are going to adopt this new way of thinking. Instead of just integrating, you know, if they all came to the board, say, hey, listen, you know, this is a record out here, we have to do something about this. And we're going to do it, and we're just going to integrate it into our way of doing business, I think we would have got there a lot sooner. So now they've seen, okay, that didn't necessarily make this, the results aren't what we wanted it to be, because we were forced into it. So we're actually going to do the exact opposite of that. And we're going to now, either a, pretend it doesn't exist or either have it on our agenda as an item that's important, but we're not going to act on it. And we're kind of in that anomaly space right now where we've come from being forced to do it. And we know it's a good thing to do. But unless something makes us do it, or we have to do it, or it leads to make even more money.

Delvin Joyce 43:21 

Listen, it's not a good thing to do. It's a profitable thing to do as well. And I look at my practice my practice, I'd say probably 80% of my clients are African American, right. 80% of my clients are executive level director level and above corporate, African American employees. And here's the thing for Prudential, you want to make a case for diversity, equity and inclusion. Prudential would not have any of those clients, if not for me being in this position. Right? Those people will go somewhere else, they probably go to Chris Gandy, or I mean not us specifically, but they go to some other advisor for their advice, but specifically because Prudential has attracted me as a financial planner in that organization, they now benefit from all these high income earning African American clients and so that profitable, that is good for business. So I know what's the right thing to do and all that, but it is also very, very profitable for American business to make a bigger tip for the industry. So.

Chris Gandy 44:31 

All right, Suzanne, any more questions for Delvin? Delvin, let me ask one last question. You mentioned financial planning. You said you believe wholeheartedly, I want to give you that platform you believe wholeheartedly that financial planning is the starting point. Right? Is the starting point. So why do you believe that to be the case? Okay, I want to want your professional perspective and then if I'm a new person, and all I have is my insurance license, what do I do if I can't get that done yet? Can you give us some thoughts around that?

Delvin Joyce 45:14 

Yeah, so I think I believe that financial planning is the way of the future for our industry is that, a lot of times people accumulate products, right, either because they've encountered an insurance agent, or they're working with a financial advisor. So they buy some life insurance, they invest in some mutual funds, they got their 401 K at work, they got a 529 plan, but they don't really have a plan, right. And there are so many other things that people are concerned about, as you know Chris, that really does not have a product that correlates to something that we offer in our industry, there are people that need help with their student loans, right, I don't think any of us has a product to help people with student loans, which means we can't get compensated to help people with their student loans, unless we charge them a financial planning fee to help them with that. And I don't believe that there's that much intrinsic value in the world for someone to say, you know what, I'm going to volunteer my time to help you figure out your student loan process. Even though I get paid to sell products, I'm going to help you with your student loans, right, nobody's going to do that. And so by creating a platform where you can charge someone a financial planning fee, you can not only help them with their student loans, you can not only help them figure out how to buy a house, you can also take all those products that they've accumulated, and make sure that those things are working in concert to their overall goals and objectives. So I personally believe that financial planning is going to help your clients accomplish more, right, because now you not only have those products, but you also have the strategy behind it. For a new advisor, here's where I get really passionate about it. For a newer advisor. Number one, you can do financial planning with just an insurance license. Remember, financial planning is not a registered product. I don't need a series seven to be a financial planner, I don't need a series six, I don't need any other, I don't even need an insurance license technically, to be a financial planner. Now I need the expertise, and maybe getting some of those licenses will help me be a better practitioner. But technically, I don't need any of that to be a financial planner. But I think when we think about our industry, the best way to create retention in our industry, is renewals, recurring revenue, residual income. And there are a couple of ways that you can build residual income. The first way, of course, is that I can sell a bunch of life insurance policies. And every year when those policies renew, I continue to get paid. That takes a long time. I mean, I'm sorry, a lot of people are going to fail out of the business, waiting to build a residual income with life insurance trails. The other way is I can do assets under management. Right. But if I am some poor college kid and I just graduated into the industry, I don't know a bunch of people that have millions of dollars that are going to help me to have me manage them so that I can make a residual income, just doesn't work that way. So the other way that I can build a residual income is by creating a practice that has financial planning fees. And if I can build my practice in a way where I charge ongoing financial planning fees on an annual basis, much like a subscription, well guess what? Now I'd built a residual income. And so if your clients identify like a lot of my clients do they're Henry, high earners, not rich yet, they'll have millions of dollars for me to manage and invest in that they do that's in their 401 K plan. I can't manage that anyway. But by charging them financial planning fees, and truly helping them with their financial planning and being the CFO of their financial situation well, we get paid year after year because we're truly helping these people manage their financial situation, not a registered product. That's without managing any assets or selling any products at all it's just helping people manage their financial situation

Chris Gandy 49:24 

Great perspective Suzanne.

Suzanne Carawan 49:27 

Yeah, okay. It just seems to me the models are starting to look a lot more like law firms and consulting firms right and like that's kind of the modus operandi there so it makes sense but I love that so financial plan is like glue between all those products and or investments and then many of you on your care calls your touchpoints is all taken care of because you're already set up for that type of success.

Delvin Joyce 49:49 

By the way, Suzanne, I love the law firm analogy because no one calls an attorney and expects to get free advice. Right. No one.

Suzanne Carawan 50:00 

You're on retainer, it has a name, retainer.

Delvin Joyce 50:03 

Exactly, we have financial advisors in our industry that will willingly take a phone call from a client that is not paying them anything and give them free advice. And I don't know any other industry where the expectation is that you work for free, except for our industry. Right?

Suzanne Carawan 50:22 

I agree. It's an anomaly. I come from all these different industries that I come in, I go, how is it that built like a law? It should be like a law practice consulting practice, right? The person who has the most experience, they make the most money, you get the fraction of them. But you have the whole thing?

Delvin Joyce 50:37 

But it's because most advisors have not created the infrastructure, though, to be able to service people in that way and have the confidence to say, here's what I charge for my advice. Most advisors are not comfortable with that conversation, particularly because we've been giving it away for free for years. And I'm telling you as an advisor, you're going to be much more excited about picking up the phone call to take a call from a client, knowing that they're absolutely paying you for your advice. And not because you sold them a term policy seven years ago, but they still call you every team wants to ask you about their student loans.

Suzanne Carawan 51:16 

Agreed. And I believe from the consumer standpoint, I feel a lot more, I have a lot more trust in you that you actually really care about all these in between things that are happening, then you're just trying to wait to live and when you can insert product and under the transaction to you. And I think that's the evolution.

Delvin Joyce 51:33 

Well, I think that's the other part of it. And we didn't go there. But I do think that people trust the advice, especially if it's coming from an objective, unbiased viewpoint. If you've paid me a financial planning fee, I don't want to sell you anything. Right, I've already gotten paid. Now you probably trust the advice that I'm going to give you info, because it's coming from a place of objectivity and unbiased.

Chris Gandy 52:02 

Perfect, great. Well, Delvin we're gonna move you to the lightning round. I don't know if you've seen any of these podcasts. But we do have a lightning round about 60 seconds. People will know your name, they may not know who you are, personally. So these questions are meant to just off the top of their head off the top of your head. Just literally, just whatever comes to mind. Tell us what's on your mind. Okay. We'll start off with some things that are really easy. What position did you play a James Madison?

Delvin Joyce 52:36 

I was a running back and a kick and punt returner?

Chris Gandy 52:39 

Yeah. Easy. That was the super easy.

Delvin Joyce 52:41 

Yeah, super easy. Give me more softball question.

Chris Gandy 52:43 

Okay, so they're all easy. All right. So the words sticktoitiveness. How did you come up with that talk?

Delvin Joyce 52:53 

Yeah, I actually started that conversation really, from the same question that you asked me earlier. Like, what did you learn from sports that helped you to be successful? And so I created this presentation where I wanted to be more intentional about writing down the things that I learned that truly helped me to be successful. And that's how that all came about.

Chris Gandy 53:18 

Have you ever thought about coaching? Whether it's high school or college?

Delvin Joyce 53:23 

Never I have no patience. I am so old school. I've never wanted to coach my kids teams. I am not that guy. Yeah, I do not like coaching at all. I have no patience.

Suzanne Carawan 53:37 

You're all the talent, another card. Yes. That's right.

Chris Gandy 53:41 

In a former life, if you could go back and play football at a different position what position would you play and why?

Delvin Joyce 53:50 

Well, the only other position I could play at five-six would be long snapper. Which ironically, is the other position that I would have played. Because the longevity for a long snapper. It's a very specialized discipline. But if you can do it, well, man, you could play forever. And so I would have learned that skill, I'd be a long snapper all day.

Chris Gandy 54:14 

Favorite movie?

Delvin Joyce 54:16 

The Matrix, the first one.

Chris Gandy 54:18 

The first one, not the reason reloaded and loaded.

Delvin Joyce 54:23 

I mean, those are those were okay, I don't hate on those. But the first matrix was just so groundbreaking and so impactful for the way that I see things, right. And I just I love all the parallels between the matrix and real life because, Neo had all this ability, but he didn't manifest until he actually started believing it. And I believe in a lot of ways, we're all the same way. We all have the power to be successful in this business. But until you believe it as a person personally, then it doesn't mean anything. And so I just love that movie and what it means and all the metaphors that come about.

Chris Gandy 55:01 

Mentor, who would you look back and say is your most powerful mentor that you've had in your life?

Delvin Joyce 55:09 

Yeah, it's got to be my dad. I said earlier, my dad told me I could be anything and do anything. And my dad was always someone that was the eternal optimist. Like my dad could look at a situation and help me figure out a pathway to look at it in a positive light. Even if at the time I thought it was the end of the world. I just remember one time I had like a high school football game, I mumbled a ball caused our team to lose the game. And literally my dad, I don't even know how he did it. But he picked me up after that game, and basically just told me it was gonna be all right. And the next week, I went out and had the best game ever. Now, there was a lot of things he said in between that, but I'm summarizing, but just my dad had this amazing perspective. He passed away in 2015, I miss him so much, because there's so much has happened in the world over the last eight years. That man, I always like to call my dad and say, hey, help me feel better about all this crazy stuff that's happening in the world right now. And my dad would do it.

Chris Gandy 56:13 

Last question for you. Your proudest moment in the industry so far.

Delvin Joyce 56:21 

I'm gonna get personal for a second, I was probably planning not to talk about this. But you guys may or may not know this, my wife last year was diagnosed with breast cancer, actually, at the end of 2022. And so last year 2023 was chemo, it was surgery, it was radiation. And I think the thing that I'm most proud of is that, I had put ourselves in a position where I could not focus on the business so much, and actually take care of my wife and my family. And so I'm just so proud that we were able to do that, and thank God in 2024, my wife is cancer-free. And we came through that period with an amazing outlook on what the future holds for our family.

Chris Gandy 57:28 

Thank you for sharing that story. Very powerful. Suzanne, Delvin, do you have anything else you would like to share with NAIFA nation before we close it up?

Delvin Joyce 57:40 

No, keep fighting the good fight. I love NAIFA. I think that the work that we do is so important. And I would just encourage everybody to keep fighting the fight and tell more people to join because of the strength and numbers.

Chris Gandy 57:55 

Awesome. Suzanne?

Suzanne Carawan 57:59 

Yeah, I just say, Delvin, thank you so much. You're a blessing to NAIFA and to the industry.

Delvin Joyce 58:04 

No, thank you guys. Thanks for having me.

Chris Gandy 58:06 

Of course. I'm going to close this up. Thanks, everyone, for tuning into today's podcast Advisor Today. Tune in next week when we have some of the brightest and some of the most innovative minds in the industry. We look forward to seeing you soon at our next upcoming events. Please pay attention to all the NAIFA's stuff that's out there. Thanks for coming together today. We look forward to uplifting promoting and looking forward to really growing and developing our culture, our group, our organization as we move forward into the future. Thanks for tuning in everyone. We'll see you soon.

Outro 58:48 

Thanks for joining us for NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series. Make sure to subscribe to get future episodes. And if you're interested in coming on the show, let us know.



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