Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

• [03:16] Ryan Pinney shares his unexpected entrance into finance and his compelling story on membership longevity 
• [06:50] How advisors utilizing new tech will outpace those who don't 
• [12:55] The importance of embracing social media for lead generation and research 
• [19:28] Ryan reflects on his involvement with NAIFA and the importance of political advocacy in the industry
• [22:00] The crucial task of storytelling and sharing wins within NAIFA and the industry
• [27:21] Building an emotional connection when customers purchase policies virtually
• [38:05] Ryan's proudest moments in financial services

In this episode…

In an era where rapid technological advancements regularly redefine the business landscape, staying relevant is more critical than ever for professionals in service-based fields, particularly financial advising. Adapting to these changes requires an understanding of new tools and trends and a commitment to delivering personalized client experiences. So, how can advisors embrace innovation while maintaining a human touch to make a lasting impact in financial advising?

Ryan Pinney, a seasoned financial advisor and innovative thinker, delves into the intricacies of selling insurance online and the significance of maintaining a robust digital presence. He shares his insights on the role of AI in refining advisors' approach to client interactions and underscores the importance of political advocacy in shaping the industry's future. Ryan recounts his early days in the field and the profound influence of delivering a death claim. With a view toward the future, he discusses his work and the challenges of providing financial services to global citizens.

In this episode of Advisor Today, co-hosts Chris Gandy and Suzanne Carawan sit down with Ryan Pinney, an insurance and financial services professional, to discuss embracing technology in financial services. Ryan shares his unexpected entrance into the financial industry, how advisors utilizing new tech will outpace those who don't, the importance of embracing social media for lead generation and research, and his involvement with NAIFA.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Chris Gandy on LinkedIn
• Suzanne Carawan on LinkedIn
• NAIFA
• Ryan Pinney on LinkedIn

Quotable Moments:

• "AI as an enablement tool is one thing, but thinking a tool will magically bring more customers without putting in the personal effort is a mistake."
• "Practice makes permanent. The more you practice something, the more that skill becomes a permanent skill in your repertoire."
• "If you’re not online in some form, you’re really not in business in a lot of respects."
• "The only people who buy life insurance are people of character who love somebody or something more than their money."
• "Service is the best way to both give and get. It will make you a better advisor."

Action Steps:

1. Embrace online platforms: This addresses the opportunity to reach a broader audience and meet the expectations of modern consumers who increasingly prefer digital interactions.
2. Leverage AI for client insights: Using AI tools to analyze client data and social media behavior to better understand their needs and preferences provides advisors with the ability to provide tailored solutions that align with specific client goals.
3. Continuously practice and refine skills: This step addresses the challenge of staying relevant and effective in a rapidly changing industry by ensuring advisors are well-prepared for client interactions.
4. Participate in professional development: This fosters continuous learning and professional growth, addressing the opportunity to build a robust network and stay informed about industry trends.
5. Advocate for industry advocacy and involvement: This addresses the challenge of navigating complex regulatory environments and ensures the long-term sustainability of the industry.

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by the National Association of Insurance and Financial Advisors, or NAIFA, the #1 association for producers in financial services. 

At NAIFA, we enhance professional skills, promote ethical conduct, and advocate for legislative and regulatory environments.

By joining NAIFA, you gain access to a partnership that elevates your performance while providing greater purpose to your professional work. NAIFA members are happier, make more money, and stay in the business longer.

Get in touch with NAIFA and learn more about how to join NAIFA by visiting NAIFA.org.

Episode Transcript

Intro 0:02 

Welcome to NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series where we focus on how financial advisors work, live, and give to their local communities and our greater financial services industry. Now let's get started with the show.

Chris Gandy 0:20 

Hi everyone. Welcome to Advisor Today's podcast. I'm your co-host Chris Gandy, and I'm here with our wonderful other co-host, Suzanne Carawan. Suzanne, how are you doing?

Suzanne Carawan 0:29 

I'm doing great, Chris, happy to be here as always.

Chris Gandy 0:31 

We're on the back door of Thanksgiving, and we have so much to be thankful for. So we are thankful for our next guest coming up. So with that, Suzanne, who's our sponsor for today's program.

Suzanne Carawan 0:43 

So today's sponsor is actually, Life Happens and Life Happens Pro. So tomorrow comes up on Giving Tuesday, actually, if you weren't looking at the dates a little strange this year, because it's in December, but we want to remember when everyone to remember it's a great time to give back to charitable causes. And at NAIFA, we are always looking for real-life stories, and that is something that Life Happens will do they look at NAIFA members, their clients, and if you have a client who has a real-life story, we would love to capture that and talk about the importance of whether it's life insurance, disability income, insurance, annuities, etc. We want to be able to get that story out there, to get more consumers protected and have them come to more financial advisors such as we have on the call today.

Chris Gandy 1:27 

Thank you so much, Suzanne. Suzanne, would you do the honor of introducing our astute guests for today?

Suzanne Carawan 1:33 

I would be happy to. So today we have the pleasure of having Mr. Ryan Pinney on the phone. Ryan's coming from California, and he's done a variety of things, which usually is known throughout the NAIFA world for a couple of things, of his service, of his past service for the United States, for several branches of the armed forces, as well as being a past national trustee, as well as he's usually known as being the guy who knows all sorts of stuff about Teck. So we'll talk all about that today, and we're excited to have you on the podcast, Ryan, and welcome back to NAIFA membership.

Ryan Pinney 2:08 

Thank you. I'm glad to be here, happy to be on the call with you guys today, and excited to see what comes about of this conversation.

Chris Gandy 2:17 

So Ryan, I was just what part of California are you in Ryan?

Ryan Pinney 2:20 

I live in Northern California, just outside of Sacramento.

Chris Gandy 2:23 

Okay, I was just in San Diego last week, and I'm back in bone chilling Chicago. Is there a reason why it's so beautiful out there compared to Chicago? That's a really, not a real, question. It's a rhetorical question. But I'm looking at the gray skies here, and I looked at the ocean there, and I'm still here. I came back to Chicago. I could do this podcast anywhere. So next time, Ryan, you got to invite me out to California.

Ryan Pinney 2:45 

Got to come to date in California, although, if you do conduct business here, you have to pay taxes here. So one of the ways we keep out all the visitors, is we charge the highest tax in the country.

Chris Gandy 2:59 

So Ryan, give us a little bit of your backstory. It sounds like you've been connected with NAIFA for a very long time, right? So tell us a little bit about your backstory. How did you first get into the industry? How did you decide that this was a path for you, or did the path choose you? Tell us a little bit about your story.

Ryan Pinney 3:16 

Yeah, it's a funny story. I actually have been a NAIFA member longer than I've been a licensed agent, which normally you couldn't do or wouldn't be allowed to do, I submitted my paperwork for my license and my paperwork for my NAIFA application on the same day. NAIFA got approved, a little faster than the life insurance license did, and part of that came about because I joined an agency where I worked with my father, who, at the time was the incoming president for the state of California. And he'd come from a career agency system. Like many I think of the more senior, older advisors in our industry. I'd come from that career agency system. And so when I ended up joining the firm, he said, okay, there's two things you got to do.

One is you got to, kind of listen, learn, and the second one is, you got to be a NAIFA member. And so that's kind of how that got started. And kind of never have looked back at my, Suzanne mentioned my military service, my background there was one of providing service. I really enjoyed what I did. I think, as a veteran, you get told, thank you for your service, and it's always a weird conversation, because I think most veterans don't feel like they need to be thanked for their service, and so you don't know how to respond always. But I think most of us, in that regard, do it because we feel like it's an obligation that we want to fulfill, or we are patriotic and we want to serve. And so that service for me just continued into the NAIFA world, where I've had many, many opportunities to serve at the local, state and national level, whether it was being on a board or being part.

The task force, short committee. But yeah, I did not think I was ever going to be an insurance agent or financial advisor. In fact, as a youngster, I have a large family. I have six sisters and a brother, and of the eight of us, I was the only one that never worked in the agency prior to joining the industry full-time. So the rest, I had worked there over summers in college or maybe in high school, trying to make a little money on the side. And I was the one who was like, nope, not going to do it, never going to do it. And then, lo and behold, here I was. And part of it was because my father was kind of an innovative guy, still is, and had gotten into the online sale of life insurance very early, and it was intriguing to me, in circa 2001 or so that he was selling insurance online, and it was before Google was a verb. Yahoo was the largest search engine. Netscape was number two, I think.

Ask and Google were battling out for the third place spot at the time, and so just kind of came in and said, I'm going to try it out for 90 days. And I've been in 90 days, we'll sit down and talk and see how it goes. And 90 days later, I was like, I love this. This is awesome. I love what we're doing, and had a lot of interesting experiences along the way that have impacted my life and made me love this industry and love this profession

Chris Gandy 6:22 

That's interesting, selling insurance online. Talk to us a little bit about that. I mean, you know, a lot of our NAIFA members are, I'm going to call them seasoned or old school. We could, we could call them that, right, but, yeah, why is the opportunity to purchase or sell insurance online, an actual vertical or an actual business opportunity? Why is that something that perhaps people should be aware of, or at least understand what it is?

Ryan Pinney 6:50 

Yeah, it's a great question. And I think, initially, when we started doing it, it was almost like a novelty. I don't think people thought it was going to last. There was still a lot of conversation about this Internet thing, just a fad. It's going to go away, in that timeline, which looking back on that, you're kind of amazed that that was the conversation. But it was, and really it came about by necessity. We were trying to figure out how to add more revenue and more business to the bottom line. There's always so many hours in the day. And so how do you generate leads? How do you talk to more customers? How do you sell more products and services? And looking at it from that perspective, moving online was a kind of a natural progression, I think today, though, it's become a necessity.

You have to be online if you're not online in some form or fashion, whether it's through social media or having a website. And if you're not, if you don't have the ability to provide some basic services online, have a customer come to your website and fill out a form to get help or whatever, then you're really not in business in a lot of respects. So, I mean, I think the consumer looks at that very quickly and says, well, Option A has a website, is on social media, is doing stuff, and Option B isn't. Well, I'm going to go with Option A because I can see that they're real and they are doing things and interacting with the community, whereas Option B doesn't necessarily feel like they're real because they're not.

Chris Gandy 8:20 

Talk to me a little bit about the information world we live in now, right? It's changed. I mean, the information is out there. I've heard this numerous times over. Is that with AI and with the change of access to information, the use of the advisor is going away. Talk to us about your perspective on that, and talk to us about why people need to embrace technology and change versus fight itself.

Ryan Pinney 8:53 

Well, I think there's, you asked a really loaded question, and so I'm going to unpack a couple pieces of it. One is consumers wanting to buy things without talking to an advisor. And I think there's a general fallacy there where, yes, that can happen, and yes, there are companies who are promoting that, especially some of the life insurance and property-casualty companies who are buy direct, go online, fill out your phone, this form, get a quote in 15 minutes. You know, save money kind of mentality. Well, the reality is that only about 30% of consumers, especially on the life insurance side, only about 30% of the consumers actually complete that process. On the property casualty side, it's a little higher, especially with things like homeowners and auto insurance, where coverage is, I don't wanna say coverage is coverage, but to the consumer, a lot of times, coverage is coverage. But when it comes to things like life insurance, investment products, annuities, there's a lot more concern about how to do that.

Some people are perfectly capable and willing to figure it out on their own, but there's still a vast majority that want some help or some guidance, and we see that in the results. Historically, financial advisors and insurance agents provide a really critical service, which is explaining the nuances and the differences between the various products and making sure that what the consumer wants from a protection perspective or from an outcome perspective is accomplished. So I think that there's kind of this misnomer that, well, everyone's moving online and ChatGPT or AI can solve my problems, and it really can't, at least not in the sense of, like, most people don't even know the right questions to ask. And so AI is a good example of that, if you don't ask the right question, it's going to give you an answer, but it may have no relevance or real bearing on what you're trying to accomplish. So the advisors role today has shifted to being one where the advisors, who use technology, who are online, who are enabling their offices and their staff with AI, they're really going to overtake and replace the advisors who aren't.

And this has been a conversation that's being had for two decades, three decades, maybe even, my father still tells the time, and it wasn't even that long ago in the late in the 90s, still where they would call the home office and they'd get an illustration or a quote, and it would be mailed out to them in a bundle of other quotes and stuff, and they get an illustration, and if you needed more than one, you had to call back and get it. And that process could take a week or two weeks to get an illustration. And now we have it all online, electronically. And so the ability to provide answers has gotten faster, but the process is still largely the same. There's still got to be that need from the consumer that you're trying to figure out. There's still got to be the conversation about what the goals and what the outcomes are. There's still got to be the conversation around things like the health of the client, if it's life insurance, or maybe the assets, if it's like, property casualty insurance, where you're talking about, like, what is the thing we're insuring, how is it going to be paid for?

And giving them the options. So while I love technology as an enablement tool, I think a lot of times we feel like, well, if I just put a quarter on my website, all of a sudden I'm going to magically have more customers and serve more clients, and it doesn't work that way.

Chris Gandy 12:26 

But you got to be in the game to win it. At the end of the day, you got to be in the game to win it. Because a lot of people aren't even in the game. I mean, they only have websites up, so they're definitely not embracing. Talk to us a little about the embracing of social media in the insurance and financial service world, because it seems like some are absolutely reluctant to be like, I'm just not doing it, right. Others are doing way more than they should. So talk to us about that balance and what you see on.

Ryan Pinney 12:55 

Yeah, I think it's interesting. I used to do a lot more social media personally than I do today, and what I realized was there was — there's two types of social media that can be done. There's really the, what I kind of refer to as, like the broadcast style social media, where you're putting out information, you're trying to convey a reputation, your expertise, etc, and you're broadcasting that information out. So it's more of a look-at-me type of social media approach in many ways. And then there's really more of like, the research aspect of social media.

And a lot of people forget this one completely. And it's the things you can learn about your client or your customers, or your prospects, even that can help you help them, that can help you present the right products and services to them, that can help you identify their needs faster and really to have a better way of communicating when it's time to have those discussions. And then, of course, there's the third aspect of social media, which most of us think about, which is, I think a lot of times lead generation driven or trying to find more prospects and clientele. And there is some truth to that, that you can still do that, although that market has gotten a lot more difficult as the mega online distributors of the day have come about. They've really flooded the lead generation market and taken, it used to be you could buy a lead for eight to $10 and it was actually a pretty quality lead. Today, it's 100 bucks for a good-quality lead. You can't find them, right?

So it's really changed the outcome. It's hard for an individual advisor to buy leads and be successful, but social media is still a place where they can do that without having to buy anything, just by creating kind of that format and that information exchange that the consumer is interested in. But I think that going back to the research one, there's so many tools, some of them AI-powered. That can help you identify your clients, and not to pick out anyone one product or service or another. But there's tools like Crystal Knows, which is a LinkedIn plugin that you can buy, and it will actually tell you about the prospects that are coming into your office. And it does like a psychographic and a demographics modeling using AI, and it will tell you, hey, this customer probably likes these words, probably doesn't like these words, probably interested in these things, probably not interested in these things, based on what they're sharing and doing on social media.

And so if you think about if you're going to meet with a client and sitting down with that client, you're able to now have this conversation that is a little more guided, a little more tailored, because AI and social media was able to help, kind of present it in the right way. And then take a third, like even step further, where you can say something like ChatGPT, where they have a tool, one of their privateGPT is called the negotiator. You can actually take your sales presentation, and you can take the crystal nose aspect of what you're doing, whereas the demographics modeling of the consumer and kind of that psychographics modeling of the individual consumer, and you can marry those two together. And so now you can have the negotiator play the role of the customer, but based on all of this information you have with the customer, and you can do an unlimited number of role-playing sales presentations with AI to really fine-tune your pitch, fine tune your presentation.

Make sure you say the right words. You can do it in voice, because AI can listen to you and respond back in voice. And how many times you're going to do that before you realize that you've got the sales presentation either dialed in and nailed, or you're presenting the wrong thing, and you need to make adjustments.

Suzanne Carawan 16:41 

I love that you can actually use the language piece of it, right? So you can know, like, if there are certain trigger words or whatever, like, just avoid these, especially in today's world, that's huge.

Ryan Pinney 16:52 

And it's a tool that, like, Chris, I know you're a professional athlete, right? As a professional athlete, did you stop practicing once you? Once you became professional, did you stop practicing? In fact, you probably practiced more, and the practice became more refined and more fine tuned to the perspective of, like, how do I really do this next level thing, or, How do I do this one skill even better than I'm doing it now? And I think what happens is, you get an insurance license or a financial registration, and all of a sudden you're like, “Well, I've got my license, I'm good to go.” And so you stop practicing, and there's no more learning for a lot of us.

And that's a huge mistake, and some of it is they don't know how to practice. And I think role-playing can be intimidating and kind of feel corny sometimes, like a lot of people don't like role-playing, but if you can do the role-playing in the privacy of your own home using AI, who doesn't is never going to get upset with you, not going to say bad things about you. It doesn't really care if you succeed or not. It's just trying to be helpful. And if you can do that, like, why wouldn't you practice? Why wouldn't you do those steps to help you be better at the job that you chose as a profession?

Chris Gandy 18:03 

Practice makes perfect. Practice, that's what they say, right?

Ryan Pinney 18:06 

Yeah, I've heard practice makes perfect and perfect practice makes perfect, things like that. But I think realistically, it's practice makes permanent. And so, the more you practice something, the more that that skill becomes a permanent skill in your repertoire, right? Like, and so, if I practiced 10,000 layups, I'd probably be pretty good at layups, but if I only done a layup a few times, I haven't done one in years. Like, the chances of me missing what should be a give me bucket pretty high, right? And it's funny, because, like, I think I see it with I coach high school sports. I coach La Crosse and Suzanne and I talk about that sometimes, because her kids played across at a very high level. And I have kids out there that are like, Oh, hey, coach, how's it going?

Season, starting, conditioning, starting. And you're like, hey, who touched a stick over the summertime, who actually did wall ball practice, who actually did something to help improve their skills. And it's usually one or two kids, and the rest are like, well, I didn't really do that coach. I should have and well, of course. And you know what? Who are the best two or three kids on the team, the ones who practiced all year round?

Chris Gandy 19:18 

Sports is a great metaphor for the business we're in. Talk to us a little bit about your involvement with NAIFA. How did you get involved, what is your role now? Tell us a little bit.

Ryan Pinney 19:28 

My role now as at large member, just doing what I can do and supporting the industry however I can. I now work for a new agency, which is actually 100% agency, which is kind of interesting. I work with Magellan many of you may know, which is Steven Kagawa, who was the diversity champion for NAIFA a couple years ago. Still NAIFA trustee. Ironically, my father is now a NAIFA trustee, which is funny. I did it first, and he's now doing it. And so kind of a funny turn of events, but I just am kind of a cheerleader. I guess, if you want to get down to it, I love what NAIFA stands for. I don't always like what happens sometimes or how it's executed, but that's just because I know we can always do better. But I am an advocate for both professional growth and for the need to educate politicians on the services and the benefits we provide to our customers.

And without NAIFA and without the PAC, the political action side of it, I think we would be in big trouble as an industry, and I think maybe even as a country. And so again, I kind of look at it as something of a patriotic duty to make sure I'm a member and participate, and that I, when I can, I go to day on the hills or whatever, and I've had to testify in front of hearings, or here in my state, I've talked to politicians about laws they're thinking about making, and try to convince them to use common sense sometimes. And so I think, like the more we can do those things, the better we make the industry for everybody else, although I think more people need to participate, and more people need to be engaged if they're in this profession and in NAIFA and in making a difference in the political realm.

Suzanne Carawan 21:30 

So, Ryan, you've always been known as a positive disrupter at NAIFA.

Ryan Pinney 21:35 

Disrupter for sure.

Suzanne Carawan 21:37

Bringing the young voice, is always how you're kind of couch like bring in a young guy, but speaking, I mean talking about that next generation of who we need to bring into the workforce of financial services, etc, and how are we going to get them excited about NAIFA, right? What are your thoughts there on doing that? Because we're facing, like, the doctor nursing shortage, crisis of financial service people?

Ryan Pinney 22:00 

Yeah, it's interesting, because there used to be more of a career pathway into the industry. You had the career agency systems. Who they were plentiful. There were many of them, and they recruited out of college. We don't see that nearly as much today. There's only a handful of the career agency systems left, New York Life, mass mutual, to some extent, Northwest mutual, right, like the few mutual companies that are still doing it, but there's not enough of them, and they're not bringing in enough new talent for the rest of the industry. And the independent side of the industry hasn't figured out a great way to bring in new advisors and train them in a timely manner.

And yet, there's the multi-level marketing side of the industry, where I think it gets a bad rap, but it's a entryway for advisors. But one thing I don't see them doing is, I don't see those folks participating in NAIFA, so they're getting the benefit of the advocacy and some of the things that are happening on the NAIFA site, but they're not participating in the community. And so I think for me, I'd love to see a way, a gateway to some of those organizations that was a little more direct and a little more tied to helping them be better at what they're doing and providing that educational component so that they also got the benefit of the advocacy component, which usually comes five, seven, 10 years down the road when you realize how important it is to your profession and your ongoing business efforts. I wish I had a panacea sometimes, of like, hey, here's the problem, here's the solution.

Let's all go do it and some people will, will take this as a negative thought, but I think that the consolidation of the industry, in some ways has been good, in other ways, it's been bad. But I think that there needs to be real thought given to, how do we narrow the, I don't wanna say narrow the voices, but how do we bring more of the voices under the same tent and get all of the different subgroups and smaller associations to participate or collaborate together better? And I think that if you look at the society bringing them on and collaborating with them as NAIFA, making them part of the group. I think that's a good first step towards that.

Chris Gandy 24:31 

The industry is shrinking, as we know, I think someone like yourself has seen. How long have you been in the industry Ryan?

Ryan Pinney 24:39 

I'm coming up on 21 years as a licensed agent, which is kind of funny to me, considering I was the guy who never wanted to do it, and here I am, more than two decades ago. Yeah, it's interesting, because you don't always see it. I was fortunate. Working in an agency that had an existing block of business and having good mentors, I think, really set me up for success. My third day in the office, I delivered a death claim. So when you think about that, many agents and advisors don't see that until much later in the career. It's like insurance is a piece of paper I gave you and a promise that an insurance company made, and you pay some premiums, and at the end of the day, we all kind of hope it works out right, and until you see that first death claim come through and get paid and the financial impact and the impact it has on the family, it's hard to quantify, like the good work we do.

And so the fact that I was able to deliver this death claim, and help, and it was actually still remember exactly. I still remember when they came in and what the situation was, and was a woman with her elderly mother, their father had passed away recently. They brought in the death certificate and the claim paperwork and helped them process that. And it's interesting, it wasn't a very large amount. It was only like a $10,000 whole-life policy that had been written back in the 70s, which, at the time was probably a more significant amount. But just the gratitude, and like the thankfulness for the help with a little bit of additional financial capital kind of pay for things, and seeing that in real life changes your perspective. It makes you realize, like we actually have a mission and a goal here that's way beyond trying to make a little money or trying to even help the customer in the present tense. It's really helping them in the future tense, right?

What we do, the promises we make, are oftentimes not delivered for 20, or 30 or 40 years. So we have to be more diligent and understand that that promise is a real promise that gets paid out, whether it's in our life or someone else's, and yeah, it's kind of a unique calling, I think, that many of us don't realize until you've been in the industry a little longer.

Chris Gandy 27:06 

So talk to me a little bit about the claims like so if I buy a policy through the virtual process, does it go through the same emotional connection as it does when there's an advisor involved?

Ryan Pinney 27:21 

I don't always think so. I mean, and there's probably a clarification there too. The virtual process, and I'll use air quotes, the virtual process is not really virtual, right? Like, there are very few companies that have an end-to-end process where no human being is involved and they exist. But again, the take ratio on those is pretty low. Call it 20% to 40% — 30% is kind of the number I keep hearing in the industry and seeing. So with advisors, that number’s typically higher, and many of the online marketers have a hybrid model, where they're doing it in like a call center style environment, even if it's an individual agent, they're still operating like a call center where they're making multiple phone calls out and trying to do this.

And so they're trying to create that connection and that interaction between them and the consumer, the customer, over the phone, which I think is a really interesting skill to be learned. Many of us don't do well on the phone. And so how do you own that is a whole another skill or part of the industry, but, but that connection is made there, and most of those companies, if you ever, if you haven't, maybe you should fill out an online application or, you know, quote request, and see what happens. It's kind of an interesting experience, but they try to create rapport with you immediately. They say, oh, what are you looking for? They're trying to do the why buy and all of the other stuff that I think the traditional agent think seven is taught. They're just doing it in a condensed format over the phone. And I think it's harder to build connection there.

But at the end of the day, most of those consumers were going online looking for life insurance. They're doing it for a specific reason. They have somebody, my father always said that don't buy life insurance. Are people of character who love somebody or something more than their money, right? Because you spend money to buy it, but it's not for you. It's for somebody else or something else. It's for your business or your business partner, it's for your family, it's for your children or your grandchildren. It's really not for you in most cases. Retirement products is maybe the one exception and if you think about that, that means that I'm spending money on somebody else over a long period of time, and I'm never going to see the outcome. I'm trusting in the outcome happening by other people making sure it happens. And again, kind of an interesting psychological effect thereof, how do you make sure that you bring that back, that conversation, back to what are you trying to do? Who's it for? And what do you want to have happen?

Chris Gandy 30:04 

So Ryan, let me ask you this, what do we as collective thought leaders in the industry? I notice I included myself in that, even though I might not be, it is what it is, right. It was, it was a subtle close. That's what it was, right? So it was the assume close. So what do we need to do collectively? One, to get more people into the industry. Two, you talked a little bit about tapping into some of the other I’m going to call it distribution and learning channels, right? Like the PHP and some of the other platforms that are vibrant online. Like, how do we get younger people into engage with NAIFA, and then how do we get NAIFA back to where it was? Or even better?

Ryan Pinney 30:50 

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of going backwards, and so I'm not sure we ever want to go back to what NAIFA was. I think what you mean by that, and I'm sure I'm being up to some purpose here is, you don't mean going backwards to how NAIFA used to work. You're talking about membership. And I think we can have way more members, but we need to think about it differently. We are much more today in a what's in it for me world, and a what's in it for me mindset, especially in the younger generations. And so NAIFA really needs to be that center of excellence. It's got to be the place that you go to learn basic skills when you're first getting started. It's got to be the place you go to collaborate with people who know more than you do when you're looking for those intermediate and advanced level skills, where you can get that kind of one-on-one coaching and mentorship from people who've been there, done that. And then it's also got to be a place where we do a way better job. It's got to be and I mean, way better job of sharing our wins.

And what I mean by sharing the wins is not necessarily the political wins, although sometimes that's important too, but certainly it's got to be sharing the wins of the customers we represent and how we are helping them. And it can't be big and nebulous. It's got to be, the daughter and the mom came into my office the third day I was in the industry, and it's got to be telling their story and how it impacted their lives. I think real-life stories attempts to do that sometimes, although we could use a lot more real-life stories. But really, it's not even real-life stories, it's we as advisors need to be telling those stories to each other and to the larger community that we represent. Because if we do that, then I think we have a pretty compelling message and a pretty compelling argument for why we're relevant and why we exist and how we help those around us. And if we can articulate those three things, NAIFA is going to be unstoppable, and it will be here for another 130-plus years.

Chris Gandy 33:10 

Awesome. Suzanne, anything else before we go to the lightning round?

Suzanne Carawan 33:14 

I just make one comment on that. I mean, I hadn't thought of that. I hadn't thought about that, Ryan, but it also is, it's probably a good time. It brings back, or it sets, I don't even say it brings back, it sets, also some norms of society for how you're supposed to care for people, right? And care for family. And so much of that has been broken over the last couple of decades, etc. It's just changed now. It's just different, you know. So it's different — the family units and everything. Everything's changed. So it's like, how do we take that idea and make that an innovative new norm about actually caring more about others than your own money, right? And putting that in place so we have that legacy wealth, or we have that financial security for others, right? That we need that. That's a very important part of security. We need to be secure at home, right?

Ryan Pinney 34:02 

Yeah, and the security is, it's funny, because security, I think, I think sometimes it's the vernacular we use this, the words, right? The words we use are not particularly appealing to a lot of people. We talk about protection, and if you're a younger generation, protection doesn't mean life insurance. It means, you know, prophylactics, right? You're talking about not getting diseases or getting someone pregnant maybe, if you're talking about things like security, I think most of us think of like alarm systems, or a security guard, or maybe even police, right? Like those terminologies, like, yes, they, mean the same thing, but we are not differentiating ourselves from so many other products and services and categories out there that consumers kind of get lost in the words. And so we need to figure out a new way to say things that is more relevant to what we really are doing and how we're doing it.

Suzanne Carawan 35:00 

I agree. All right, Chris, let's go to the lightning round.

Chris Gandy 35:03 

All right, Ryan, I don't know if you've had a chance to tap into any of the podcasts. We are on lots of channels, you know, but we appreciate you being here. We appreciate your service to NAIFA. We do appreciate you spending the time to leave the wonderful weather of California and join us on this podcast of turbulence here. But with that being said, the lightning round is just around where we get to know you, Ryan as a person. Some of the things you like, some of the things you don't, whatever comes to mind at first, that is the answer. Okay, so just relax, be yourself, and we'll ask the question. So the first question, Ryan, is the Sacramento Kings or the Lakers?

Ryan Pinney 35:44 

Kings.

Chris Gandy 35:46 

Suzanne, are we really having this conversation, Ryan, when I see you, we got to have a conversation. We got to have a model conversation.

Ryan Pinney 35:55 

You didn't ask the best, you just asked me which one I would pick. And so Kings, you got to pick your hometown team. I'm not saying that they're good enough to take the Lakers this year. But I grew up in the Michael Jordan bulls era. So either had to pick the bulls or the pistons, a few years earlier, it would have been the Celtics or the Lakers. So I don't know the Kings don't really hang in that conversation on any of those levels, but it's the hometown team. And so I got to support the hometown team.

Chris Gandy 36:28 

Ryan, your favorite food?

Ryan Pinney 36:31 

I like Asian food. Probably sushi is my favorite.

Suzanne Carawan 36:34

All right, Ryan, if you had to go back in time to have dinner with anyone living our life, living or has deceased. Who would you go back and have dinner and why?

Ryan Pinney 36:46 

Wow, that's a really interesting one. I think I'd go back and have dinner with Teddy Roosevelt. I think he's kind of like the quintessential guy's guy, he was an outdoorsman, hunter, fish, urban but he's also a statesman and politician. He was a conservationist who started the national parks. I think he would just be a really interesting person to sit down and talk to and ask him, like, his thoughts on everything happening in the world right now. And I'm sure he would tell me to talk softly and carry a big stick, maybe. But it's just the mindset. I think Teddy, I think Teddy Roosevelt would probably be an amazing person to have dinner with.

Suzanne Carawan 37:27 

And what was his morning routine? That's what I want to know about Teddy Roosevelt, right? Biggest thing there. How did he structure his day? What did his time management look like?

Ryan Pinney 37:35 

I know that he got a lot done, and I know that he was a fan of calisthenics. And like, would, I don't know if it'd be considered working out the way we think of it today, but he, you know, definitely did that. And you know, he spent a number of years in the military, and so I'm sure he was a very structured person as well.

Suzanne Carawan 37:52 

I'm sure. All right, last question, so, you might have alluded to it, but aside from the delivering of the death check on date three, proudest moment in the industry thus far. I'm sure you have many to come.

Ryan Pinney 38:05 

Wow. I think probably the thing I'm most proud about is something I'm working on right now, which I mentioned Steve and Kagawa, and really Steven and I and a few of our friends who work at collaboratively, we started a new organization earlier this year, in April, and with the goal of delivering financial services and solutions on a global scale. And so we went from kind of leveled up, and I was already doing it, and all of us were already doing things on a national scale. Some of them were doing them on an international scale, and individual countries, but we decided, there's a big problem with transferring wealth and moving money and planning across borders, language, cultures and currencies, and so how do you handle or tackle that? And I think for a long time, there was this thought that the industry would do it.

Well, the industry hasn't, and they don't seem to be even looking at it. And yet, today, there's about 380 million people who live somewhere other than where they were born. They speak more than one language. We see huge immigration happening on a global scale, and so that's just Compounding the problem, and no one's tackling it. And so again, kind of going back to those roots of service and providing something new and interesting. We created a new company called Ohana Global Alliance to work, advisor to advisor, peer to peer, across insurance, investors, banking, tax on law to help people of the world, help global citizens take care of their financial needs. And so we're not there yet. We're still growing and going but to me, that's the most amazing thing I've been working on recently.

Suzanne Carawan 39:53 

I mean, that has to be endlessly fascinating, because you hit all the pieces also. Especially if you're talking about life insurance in particular, and the value of life and family, and all the things that come with that, the cultural effects, what are the norms? They're all very different. So all very contextual. That's got to be just incredibly fascinating.

Ryan Pinney 40:14 

It's really fascinating. And what's interesting is the consumer's motivation. The client's motivation hasn't changed one iota. They still want to take care of somebody that they love. They still want to protect something that's more important than the money they have in their hand today and yet, governments and insurance companies and financial services providers have made that really difficult to navigate with all of the various rules, regulations and laws. And so for somebody who's a global citizen, transversing international boundaries and currencies and language and culture, like, it's really easy to get lost or stuck and it's a growing problem. So it's like, you know, what's going to be the big problem over the next 50 years in financial services, this is it, right? So I'm still a younger guy. I'm not as young as I once was, and I see this being something I can tackle and sink my teeth into for the next couple decades and be really passionate and excited about moving forward. So that's probably the thing I'm most proud of right now.

Suzanne Carawan 41:19 

I'm tactful. Well, that's fantastic. Well, thank you very much for being on the program Ryan. Any last words you want to give to NAIFA nation, everyone's listening to you?

Ryan Pinney 41:30 

I would say, get active, participate, do more than you're doing now and find ways to be involved in ways that you're not now. And I say that selfishly, but also I say it for your own benefit. You know, selfishly, it will help us as NAIFA members and help our industry. But selfishly for you, it will make you a better advisor. It will put you around other people who are going to help you grow and learn about your practice and learn about the industry in ways that you haven't thought about. It's gonna let you kind of take that next step. And so I think service is the best way to both give and get.

Suzanne Carawan 42:10 

I can't agree more. Well, thank you very much. Take care. Looking forward to seeing you soon, hopefully in the future, actually in person, sometime, maybe in 2025.

Ryan Pinney 42:19 

I hope so. It's been a while since we've seen each other face to face. So thanks. Suzanne, Thanks, Chris. Really appreciate you guys today.

Suzanne Carawan 42:25 

Thank you. Thanks everybody. Take care.

Outro 42:30 

Thanks for joining us for NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series, make sure to subscribe to get future episodes, and if you're interested in coming on the show, let us know.