Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- [04:07] John Davidson discusses how he shifted from a car salesman toward a fulfilling career in financial services
- [08:57] John’s involvement with NAIFA
- [14:02] The journey from relying on a financing contract to establishing independence within the industry
- [20:55] How to balance personal and professional life in the financial services industry
- [25:25] John talks about his leadership style leading NAIFA
- [28:41] The impact of mentoring the next generation in the financial services industry
- [38:09] Humility and the true measure of success
- [48:52] John’s advice for young professionals in the financial services industry
In this episode…
Many people leave a comfortable career path behind to pursue financial services. Most of them transition because of their personal experiences, but how do these experiences shape the motivations and ambitions of those who enter this industry? And what factors contribute to a journey of exploration and fulfillment within financial advising?
A seasoned financial advisor, John Davidson, delves into his journey in the financial services industry, which began with a serendipitous encounter and a pivotal question about life fulfillment. He candidly shares the lessons learned from early career struggles, the importance of mentorship, and the power of a giving mindset that helped him become NAIFA President. He discusses the complex challenge of leading an organization with diverse needs and how staying true to core values can simplify difficult decisions. John also reveals the rejuvenating experience of mentoring the next generation, ensuring the legacy of financial advising continues strong.
In this episode of Advisor Today, co-hosts Chris Gandy and Suzanne Carawan sit down with John Davidson, a storied professional in the financial services industry, about his journey in the financial services industry. John discusses how he shifted from a car salesman toward a fulfilling career in financial services, his involvement with NAIFA, how he navigated the challenges of starting and growing his own financial services firm, and the impact of mentoring the next generation.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Quotable Moments:
- "Even if you are successful, will you have the fulfillment you're looking for in life?"
- "When your values are right, decisions are easy."
- "I learned early on that the productivity side is where you need to be if you're going to be a business owner."
- "Be approachable, because people look at you and they may have a preconceived idea."
- "It's the people that come into your life that make all the difference in the world."
Action Steps:
- Engage in continuous learning and certification programs: Stay updated with industry trends and enhance your credibility, addressing the challenge of staying relevant in a rapidly changing industry.
- Participate actively in professional associations: Build valuable relationships and gain a platform to influence industry practices, turning professional challenges into opportunities for advocacy and leadership.
- Seek and offer mentorship: Seeking mentorship provides guidance and accelerates learning, while offering mentorship allows you to give back and reinforce your knowledge, thus creating a culture of support and knowledge sharing.
- Diversify your business offerings: Stabilize your business against market fluctuations and meet a broader range of client needs.
- Cultivate a humble and service-oriented leadership style: These qualities foster trust and collaboration, ensuring you can lead effectively and inspire others within your organization or industry.
Sponsor for this episode...
This episode is brought to you by the National Association of Insurance and Financial Advisors, or NAIFA, the #1 association for producers in financial services.
At NAIFA, we enhance professional skills, promote ethical conduct, and advocate for legislative and regulatory environments.
By joining NAIFA, you gain access to a partnership that elevates your performance while providing greater purpose to your professional work. NAIFA members are happier, make more money, and stay in the business longer.
Get in touch with NAIFA and learn more about how to join NAIFA by visiting NAIFA.org.
Episode Transcript
Intro 0:02
Welcome to NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series where we focus on how financial advisors work, live, and give to their local communities and our greater financial services industry. Now let's get started with the show.
Chris Gandy 0:20
Hi everyone. Welcome to Advisor Today's podcast. Your podcast of NAIFA, we're super excited about our guest today, and I'm your co-host, Chris Gandy, and I'm here with the wonderful co-host, my other co-host, my better half Suzanne Carawan, how are you doing?
Suzanne Carawan 0:40
I'm doing great. Chris, excited to be here.
Chris Gandy 0:42
No, it's really good to see you. We are in a unique place because we've watched a 58-year-old male actually do boxing on a professional level, but I'm not sure we call it boxing. But we'll fast forward the tape and we will talk about the history of NAIFA. We've got a, like I said, a wonderful guest, but before we get going, Suzanne, can you share a little bit about our sponsor for today's program?
Suzanne Carawan 1:10
I will indeed. So this week, we're going to focus in on building the next-generation workforce, and who better to do that than NAIFA? And one of the programs that NAIFA does is called Future Leaders. And we're going to talk about that a little bit today, because our guest is going to be one of the featured speaker there. It's happening December 3. We're doing a truncated version for the college and university students who are trying to finish up the semester. So December 3 for students between 12 and three, and this time, we have a special parent session, 9pm Eastern, to talk about this great career and all the career paths therein. So future leaders, check it out. We are in our fourth year of graduating all sorts of people from the program, and we're going to talk a little bit about that today.
Chris Gandy 1:54
Awesome. So Suzanne, would you do the honors of introducing our illustrious guests for today?
Suzanne Carawan 2:00
I would love to, so it is truly an illustrious guest. Mr. John Davidson, out of California, is joining us today. He has numerous accomplishments, but one that I also want to recognize, because he himself had to be out and about last Veterans Day. But John is a veteran. So John, thank you for serving first and foremost. And I know that's part of your story as well, but he was actually at a Veterans Day parade or festivities last week, so we couldn't honor him on the day, but we'll do it one week plus. But John Davidson has done quite a few things around the NAIFA world that we can delve into today, and we're also going to talk about some of the ways that he's now a current mentor and giving back and paying it forward. So welcome John.
John Davidson 2:47
Great to be with you both.
Chris Gandy 2:48
John, many people don't know the history of NAIFA, but curious how many people from California? Because I know that's kind of where you reside, or that's where you're from. How many Californians have we had as NAIFA presidents? Do we know the answer to that?
John Davidson 3:09
Yes, it's six actually.
Chris Gandy 3:12
So there's been six NAIFA presidents from the state of California.
John Davidson 3:17
In 134 years.
Chris Gandy 3:19
134 years, that means that you're in a unique position, because are you the last?
John Davidson 3:29
Oh, no, after me, we had Jill Judd, and Tom Michael.
Chris Gandy 3:34
Tom, yeah. So let's fast forward the tape. Let's get into a conversation today. So John, people may know you, or may see you or like, I know that guy, like, I've seen that guy somewhere before. So, John, share with us a little bit about your story. We know that last year you were honored in a couple of different ways around NAIFA. But share with us a little bit about your story. How did you actually get into this? I mean, you've been in financial services. How long now?
John Davidson 4:07
On January the 11th, it'll be 44 years.
Chris Gandy 4:10
So 44 years. But how did you get in? Who gave you the keys to the castle? How did it work?
John Davidson 4:17
It's kind of a serendipitous story. But the background is my father died when I was growing young. I was nine, and my mom had no money, no marketable skills, anything, and we were just kind of out there on social security, and my brother and I were delivering newspapers and doing things that we had some challenges early on in life, and I had a younger sister also, and at the time we really didn't know what was in front of us, and there was a there was a gentleman, apparently, who sold my dad a life insurance policy six months before he died of a heart attack. And we ended up it was to mortgage insurance. We ended up keeping the house, which was good. And about three years later, there was another insurance agent who bought us boots for the Boy Scouts so we could go on campouts. So we had a real interesting introduction into the insurance world, which didn't come to fruition until I was in the business, and found out about it later.
But I was in the army, and when I was 19, I stayed in there for three and a half years, and it came out, didn't wasn't sure what I wanted to do, but I ended up selling cars at a Chevrolet dealership in Thousand Oaks, a small community of about 30,000 people, back in 1974 and I was there for six years. And during one of those years, I was a manager, a sales manager, and one of my salesmen said, hey, I'm going to go to work for New York Life, and the general manager wants to come out and interview you about me. I said, Sure. And so this the general manager came out. I remember his name. I remember everything. His name was Peter Shevlin, and he was a managing partner of the local New York Life agency. He said, well, tell me about Danny. Tell me, is he as reliable as you show up on time? Is he honest? Did you have integrity, all those things? And I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he flipped the script on me. He said, Well, what about you? I said, What do you mean? What about me? He said, where do you see yourself in five to 10 years?
Now, I was 28 years old. I was making very good money. I was in the business for six, seven years. I was good friends with the owner. I said, in 10 years, I'll have my own dealership. I'll be making millions of dollars. They'll be five minutes from home. My life will be great. He said, no, you won't. He said, you'll be just like the people who've been here 10 years longer than you. They'll be older, and the guy who owns this place will be making more money. And then what would you do? He said, But wait, even if he works, even if you are successful, will you have the fulfillment you're looking for in life. And nobody ever talked to me about fulfillment. It was all about making the sale. It was like fulfillment. What the heck is that? And it made me start to think about what was important to me. I had two young boys at home, and Didi and I had numerous discussions about, I can't raise these kids alone, because I always had to be where the sales were happening. I wasn't balancing my life. And so I thought about it. I'd already had life insurance and disability insurance. I had a will and a trust. I had everything set up already at 26 because my father obviously didn't do that.
And so I learned over time, that this is what you had to do. And so I went to work for the mass mutual general agency in town who hired two agents a year at that time, just two, and they put all the resources into us to help us to be successful. And so that's how I started in the business. There's more to that story, but that was my beginning. And there were times when, I looked at that, I said, I don't know if I could do this, because I was starving to death. They thought, oh, you're selling $5 million of life insurance. It was all-term insurance. I was starving, and they said, you're going to make it. I thought. And then I used to think about quitting. I thought, I don't know if anybody else in this business has ever thought about quitting the first couple of years business.
I'm sure it happens. But the little internal Jimmy Cricket on my shoulder said, If you don't do this, what are you going to do with your life? It gives you that fulfillment you're looking for. It has something that gives you redeeming social body and allows you to spend time with your family that's important to you.
Chris Gandy 8:14
So, John, you found a calling in this, in this business, right? And so, you know, there's something to be said about that is, why not now? What are you going to — what's going to help fulfill your mission in life? Talk to us a little bit about, when did you meet the NAIFA platform? When did that come about? Because, did it come as a part of your first kind of training and development, or did you find NAIFA later in your career, later, as you went along? Can you answer that first, and then I'm asked a question off of that?
John Davidson 8:57
Sure, I remember very distinctly, we were in the San Fernando Valley, which is a little bit north of Los Angeles. We had a local association, the San Fernando Valley Life Underwriters. At that time, about 600 members. Obviously, that was before the internet. I think it's probably even before Michael William Evans, but it was a long time ago, and I went to my first local association meeting, and the keynote speaker was Ben Feldman and his son, Marvin, a gentleman named Medy Fauci from Iran, and a guy named Bucha from New Orleans, Louisiana. And I had no idea who these people were, but I was very impressed, because Ben Feldman had a notebook, and in the notebook he had a whole list of his power phrases that he used for his sales.
He was the insurance icon at the time, still is in my book. And he had 10 $1,000 bills under acetate paper there, and three pennies underneath it. And what impressed me the most was, first of all, I looked at him, I thought they were $100 bills. I have never seen $1,000 bill before or since. And then the fact that he's been walking around with 10 grand and not need it, that was pretty impressive to me, too. So he got my attention really quickly, and I wrote down about every, I think I took five pages of power phrase notes from Ben Feldman and Medi in the group, and I came back and shared that with my general agent, and he just laughed. He said, “you're going to go a long way in this business, kid.” It was great. It was great.
Chris Gandy 10:09
So that was your first introduction to NAIFA. So, at that point, did you become a member, or was it you went to, just went to the meetings. Or how did that? How did that work? Or did you were told violent, told that you would go.
John Davidson 10:40
So I was probably, probably door number three. It was, I had a managing manager who was assigned to me, a real nice guy named Howard Landon. He would been in the business about five years longer than me. He was my age. He had a couple of kids, and so they paired us up because we were kind of about the same age and like and had things going the same way. And he was actually on the local association board, and he brought me to a meeting. And of course, they pay at the dues at that time were like 156 bucks a year or something. And you go to the month, it was a monthly meeting. And he brought me in the fold there. And he kind of weaned me into, okay, well, once you get involved these committees. I said, I just tried to survive. I've just, I said, I don't want to get involved, but I do. I like the feel of the other people. We do some case prep. I could talk to new young agents like myself and kind of measure up. What do we do? How do we manage our time? And are we really going to make it in this business? So that was early on, that was in 1984 that I did that.
Chris Gandy 11:42
And so you've been a NAIFA member ever since.
John Davidson 11:45
I actually, I was, like you said, I voluntarily joined in 1981 as soon as I signed my contract, we signed on there that we were obviously 100% agency. And actually, Howard line of my manager was on the NAIFA board. So it was, there was no question.
Chris Gandy 12:00
Yeah, there's something to be said about that, is that leaders lead from the front, right? And, young aspiring advisors like yourself have a tendency to mimic the behaviors of the people they want to be like, right? And so there's that concept, and I think we've gotten away from that a little bit, manager say, do whatever you want, and we hope you make it right. And we're going to teach you about product, process, and procedure. We're going to teach you product, product, product, and you'll make it as long as you know your product in and out, but you and I both know that this business is all about building relationships and doing all the other fun things that come along the way. So talk to us a little bit about your progress through your business.
So you came through the business. You had to have some level of success at some point, when did you decide that, you know what, I kind of want to put up my own shingle. I kind of want to do my own thing, kind of, whether it's just you and your staff, or it's you and a couple advisors, or whatever you've built today. When did you make that decision? And what made you make that decision? Was it just something that you say, I always want to be a leader or talk to us a little bit about that transition. Because I think a lot of people that do listen to this podcast, that they've told me is that they're on the fence. They're unsure. Should they do something on their own? Should they just stick to the safety of what they've got, and then the contracts and, you know, so we all cross that bridge at some point, and we want the end-to-end independence, but we want it to be interdependent, right? So share with us your journey, a little bit about what triggered that for you. And then what did you do to kind of move that needle.
John Davidson 14:02
It's kind of interesting. I didn't know what we were going to talk about this morning, but I'm glad you asked that question specifically, because I didn't get my insurance license until four months later in April of 1981 when I got in. So any business that I was writing went in my manager's account, and I had a financing validation. I got into the business, not on just commission only. I took a $2,000-a-month salary, which was a significant cut from what I was used to making. Did I say significant? It was a really significant cut from what I was used to making. And I thought, oh my gosh, I've got to get some money in here. So what I did is I hunkered down, and I started expanding my practice from just selling life and disability insurance to the health insurance arena, where I was getting some Group Health accounts, smaller group accounts, and using those group accounts as a feeder system for additional sales contacts. And it worked out really well.
I've got a lot of those accounts, even today. What it made me do, Chris, was it made me focus on a mindset of a business owner, as opposed to an employee, and as a business owner, looking at this, if I wanted to buy something from me and have that long-term relationship, what would I have to have to make that happen. So I started a corporation at the time. We added a couple of new profit centers in there, including, selling, working with pension plan, people doing health insurance, life insurance, disability at the time, we had pretty limited on what we're selling. And I didn't even venture into the brokerage rule, because I had a contract financing contract to validate, and it was a three-year contract, and I was already five months behind the initial start date, so I knew I had to hustle, and I did that. But what it taught me was to be disciplined. Somebody said, well, do you have call reluctance? And I said, No.
And they said, Well, what's your definition of call reluctance? I said, just being able to pick up the phone and call somebody, and they rightly pointed out to me, well, call reluctance maybe that to you, but in truth, this anything that keeps you distracted from doing what you need to do to reach your goals and objectives. Could be looking on the internet, could be watching TV stuff like that. And so I adopted kind of a Norman Levine process of work. And when Norman told I met Norman early in my career, and he said, this is the greatest part time business you'll ever have, John. I said, well, what do you mean? He says, you only have to work half days. I said, really, I didn't realize that. He goes, Yes, which 12 hours would you like to work today? And it helped motivate me to get the focus of being a business owner mindset, as opposed to come in and work three or four days and do this and that and not spend a lot of time on things that weren't productive. There's a difference between activity and productivity, Chris, and that's what I learned early on, is that the productivity side is where you need to be if you're going to be a business owner. The Activity side you can delegate to other people. And so I hired a part time staff person early on, split it with another agent, and we were off to the races.
Suzanne Carawan 17:07
Makes sense. That makes total sense, yeah.
Chris Gandy 17:11
And so you had a vision for what you wanted to build, but did you feel like I want to just address this, because I think we have people that are on financing contracts here that are, let's call them, we grew up in the captive world, right where you were, you were either stamped, maybe a New York Life, or Northwestern Mutual, or mass mutual and they help subsidize, right? Those that understand how financing work. They help subsidize your startup of your business, right, or your startup of your financial service business, so now you could stay in that space and continue to have the subsidies and things like that. But what made you say, I can, you know, yeah, this is limiting my growth of what I really want to do, which will allow for you to basically be able to do the things you want, what in your mind helped you see that? Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
John Davidson 18:28
I think it's kind of out of necessity. Actually, we were living in a two-bedroom, 1100-square-foot condominium that I bought after I got out of the military with a California vet loan. And then we had this little intruder came along, this third kid, this third boy, and it was like, we need a little bigger place. And when you need a little bigger place, a couple of things happen. One, it's more expensive. And secondly, the furniture you had in that littler place is not enough for the new place. And the progression began that I needed to have a little bigger house, which meant I had to earn more money qualify for loans. And I thought, How am I going to do that? Am I going to work more hours? Are you going to work smarter? So I started doing joint casework. And doing joint casework, you can multiply your efforts and what you really I found that I had to swallow a little bit of ego and pride in order to be productive. And when you have joint casework, you also have to trust the other people that are around you.
So you'd be very selective on who you bring into your fold. People who are like-minded have the same value system that you operate your life under, because those are the people that are a reflection of you, whatever name is on the logo that you have. And so I was fortunate to be surrounded by a lot of really good people who also wanted to help me succeed in this business, and I'm forever grateful to them, and a few of them are still around right now, who I count as that super inner circle of best friends. So that's the thing we did, and it worked out great for us. Because it also allowed me to be able to give back to the industry earlier on than I really wanted to, even though I was off of the state the local board and the state board a couple of different times, because I had things to do when raising the kids, and I wanted to be with the kids, because that was one of the driving forces for me to get in the industry in the first place.
Chris Gandy 20:20
So you served, let's talk about service over self. So how did you find the time to serve NAIFA? I mean, you got kids, you got family. Talk to us about the balance. How did you find time to serve NAIFA and actually serve on the board? Because I know there's some people that listen to this and they're like, I don't have time like school. I like what NAIFA offers. But what prompted you to say, I need to get involved, to really get involved, to make an impact.
John Davidson 20:55
Well, I think a couple things happen there. One is, I want to jump in right away and get my accreditation. So I jumped into the LUTC program, got my LUTC up, and I was rubbing shoulders with a lot of people that whenever I was around them, there's a synergy there. You could feel it. These were people who were focused and dedicated. So the LUTC program became very important to me. And as a matter of fact, I ended up teaching, I don't know, probably eight or 10 courses during that time, and what it taught me also, because in taking like the LUTC business program, for example, was that I again reminded myself to think like a business owner, I'm going to make the most out of my time when I'm in front of people. I didn't try to just be that educator about this is how dividends work and how the compound interest would go over time tax defer, and all that.
I was motivating them to buy the products, to continue to protect their families and businesses the way that I did, plus I owned everything that I sold. And so being around the other people at NAIFA, or at that time was NALU, we were just focused in front of people. So we became very, very efficient and so and the other part about it was, they say, once a luxury experience becomes a necessity is I made leaders club every single time I've been in whatever company I was with all the time. That was the minimum thing, plus round table, I made at the qualified round table every year I've been in the business. I made it my first year actually, I was called a provisional applicant the first two years, and I went to MDRT meetings. I went to everything because of the people I wanted to be around that energy level, and it was contagious. And that's how I was taking that energy level, and it was just kind of trying to get as much as I could, and then reflect back with the people around me. So I still, to this day, have friends all over the country who I met through round table and some of those leaders club conferences.
Chris Gandy 22:45
That goes, just talk about the winning culture, right? Is that when you're around winners, you have a tendency to pick up their behaviors and want to, to not let them down. So, even if you were discomfort, even if you were uncomfortable, uncertain, you know, unsure, you are a part of a group or a culture that they were for sure, for sure, right? And so you had an opportunity to learn from them, and you can learn from their experience. I mean, quite frankly, they made a lot of mistakes along the way, and for them to teach you and to share with you some of their secrets. The secret sauce means you didn't have to make some of those mistakes, right?
John Davidson 23:28
I made my share of mistakes. I think the phrase that sticks in my mind, I remember it as like it was yesterday, Bob Brown when I just totally messed up. Bob Brown pulled me aside, and he said, John boy said, your friends are those people who, when you've made a complete fool of yourself, don't think you've done a permanent job. And so that kind of love that you get when you're around people who know where your heart is, and what you really want to do is to make a difference in people's lives. And learning is a part of life if you learn, but they say a lesson will continue to be a lesson until learned. So I've repeated some of those follies of the past, but not too often, but I'm also it teaches you to be forgiving, and to be pulling people alongside you that are maybe going through a rough period of time and that's the beauty of being part of the engagement and the leadership of NAIFA or your witty Association you're part of.
Chris Gandy 24:26
So let's talk about leadership. So Suzanne did mention that you are a past president of the association, so thank you for your service and your leadership. Now I want to ask you some questions, since you learn from your mentors and peers. So let me ask you a question, what was the hardest thing about leading an organization that quite frankly, it's different pockets, different segments right of the world right here you have your Utah group who may see things a little differently than California. California may see it a little differently than your Floridians and your Illinoisans are pretty much hardcore, you know. So what was the hardest thing about being in that role, number one? And then number two, how did you bring everyone together to move the agenda for NAIFA as a whole?
John Davidson 25:25
Well, that's a lot there to unpack, but you're pointing out something very important at the very beginning. When, when you're coming it depends on your point of view. So when you're coming from California or Illinois or Florida or wherever, you have a particular point of view of what you've been exposed to at the local and the state level, but when you get to the national level and you serve on committees, all of a sudden, now you've got a group of people from different parts of the country who have different real-life experiences, different size states. California, obviously a very large state. You come from Iowa or from Nebraska, much smaller, smaller budgets. Everything is a different take a zero off or something. But then what you have to learn when you get on the national board is to take your California or state hat off, put that on the side, and put on your NAIFA national hat, and look at things from a more from a higher perspective over there, try to remain more strategic.
And then the hard part is listening, listening to the input from other people who have a different perspective, who may or may not know everything that's going on that particular topic, behind the scenes, valuing their opinions, bringing people to a place where they can build consensus and move forward with the program, the best way possible, knowing that not everybody's going to get everything they want, but looking to find common ground for the benefit of the organization, not for any one individual or any particular state. So it's a little bit of a tightrope walk at times. But the longer you're around different groups of people, and you're open to listening, you can make good decisions, because your value systems are all pretty much aligned. And that adage that when your values are right, decisions are easy, is very true, especially in the nonprofit volunteer corridor we're in right now.
Chris Gandy 27:11
So you say when your values are right, the decisions are easy. Is that what you said?
John Davidson 27:16
Easier? Yeah, absolutely.
Suzanne Carawan 27:18
Yeah. But alignment makes a lot of stuff.
Chris Gandy 27:20
Suzanne, we need some T-shirts to say that.
Suzanne Carawan 27:24
It's alignment, right. You got to agree on the big common goal.
Chris Gandy 27:29
John one more time, when your values are right, decisions are easy. When values are right, the decisions are easy. Okay, great. Okay, so now that we understand that it wasn't always easy, that you had to listen to others, right, and you had to balance that out, because everybody has a different perspective, right, of where they've come from, and their and their story, right? And everybody wants their story to be heard, right? So that means that at some point you've been mentored, I can tell you, said, normally you've said a lot of the super, super, super producers that have been around a long time, right? You picked up things. Yeah, you mentioned Norm Levine, you mentioned, I mean, you've mentioned a bunch of them. So question for you is, why was mentorship and leadership of those people so important to you? And then have you gotten into mentoring others the same way that they've mentored you?
John Davidson 28:41
Well, I think I realized when I got to NAIFA national and was working on the membership committee, and all the other stuff we did is I didn't know what I didn't know, and I would have a tendency to want to kind of run the show. Because I came from California, I thought, well, we know how to do things out there. We had a good association exactly at the time, things seem to be running, and why doesn't everybody else do it this way? I remember one of my early this, gosh, this is, gosh, I'm going to date myself here too again. But about 2004-2005 Dick Coop was president at the time. We were dealing with the optional federal charter versus narab to legislation that was going through, and I didn't know anything about it. And Dick was taking a sense of the board at a board meeting one time, he says, okay, we'd like to get, we had a presentation from Scott Cinder, one of our outside counsel, about where, where this legislation was proceeding, and what we wanted to do, do we want to continue with it or not? And we had to vote on that, and there was money involved with that.
It had to focus on the potential outcome of agents being able to have freedom to sell contracts in different states or be controlled by the federal government through the optional federal charter program. Which was being heavily pushed by insurance companies and the ACLI and we were taking a position to let the agents community decide what was best for them and their states and their communities and things like that. So I didn't know anything about that. And Dick says, how many want to go forward with this? One is for sure. Number two is, I'm not sure. Number three is Tell me more. I didn't raise my hand, and he pointed me out very indelicately at the meeting at the board and said, Davidson, what's your vote? I said, I don't know enough to make the right calling this. He says you have to make a decision with the best information that you have available right now. What's your vote? There's nowhere to hide. It's like being that defensive back trying to cover Jerry Rice, one on one, you make the decision, and I learned from that experience the difficulty of making a decision when you're in leadership.
It's not always easy, but you have to do the best you can with what you know and move forward again, finding common ground and consensus. So the mentors that I had along the way, Chris were things like that that helped me to stay engaged. And I think about Dick today, because he actually just passed Sunday, and I reached out to Judy again, those lifelong relationships and friendships that we get in NAIFA today. I mean, I'm talking 40 years. I've known this guy for a long time, my whole life. He's a great, great man, just a wonderful friend and a mentor, and I will miss him terribly, but, but you know what, Nate was continuing, and we have the same type of leadership. I see it in you, as I mentioned to you before. I mean dynamic leadership, forward-thinking, visionary, motivating, bringing all people along for the benefit of the organization and the clients that we serve. So, that's kind of where I'm heading, in this direction.
Chris Gandy 29:36
Mentoring the young generation. Talk to us a little bit about what you mentioned there. I think there's a young man you're mentoring, or you, you know, has been kind of knocking on your door, saying coming to see you all the time, saying, Hey, listen, you didn't just, the book of secrets you learn from all those people. I need some of that juice, so share with us a little bit about that story, because I think that story is pretty, pretty interesting, pretty cool, actually.
John Davidson 32:14
Yeah, it came out of nowhere, actually, for me and honestly, it's, it's an honor, but it's also a heavy weight, because there's a significant amount of responsibility. I'm at the other end of my career. I'm 44 years in the business. I'll be 73 next month, although I'm still active and very excited about all the things, as long as I'm functional and don't mess things up too bad, I hope you keep me around for a little bit. But Bucha approached me about I would say, I'm gonna say, six months ago. And he's been dating my granddaughter for all through school. They've been friends for forever, six, seven years like that. And he's now 21 his father died a couple of years ago. Didn't have any insurance, anything at all. And all of a sudden, now she's now respond, he's, he's the sheep dog of the family. He's always looking for everything to make sure everything is okay. He's responsible, smart, he's articulate. He's an athlete, which is really good because he's played on teams.
He understands the importance of teamwork. He's very perceptive. And he asked me if he could speak to me about our business. And I said, sure. So we met for lunch one day, and he asked me, how I built the business, what did I do? So I related to him, my story, kind of like I did earlier on this call. And the focus was I was seeing a lot of myself in him. Didn't have a support system, didn't have that safety net, didn't have those guardrails. And I thought, Gosh, I need to help this young man to do anything I can to make sure he's a success. Because it's not. I used to tease him a little bit. I said, if you want to marry, you know my granddaughter, you better ask her, and then her father. I said, I can't answer that question for you. But what I can do is I can give you all the background and support systems that I have, that I have at my disposal to make you as successful as you're possibly capable of becoming. He says, I want that. I said, okay, so he was called. He called me every week. We’ve been meeting every week. He's smart, he's articulate. He grabs concepts much more quickly than I did. He's driven, he's focused, he's passionate about what he's doing.
He's a member of NAIFA already. He wants to get his LUTCF program. I think his mom and others want him to finish college and get his degree in there, which I applaud. He's made it clear that this isn't the right time for him. Right now. He wants to get up, hit the ground running. He's hard at 21. He's got money, if he's saving, he's disciplined, and he wants to get in the business so that he can marry my granddaughter and start his own business practice. And so he and I have been meeting. He went to the California conference earlier this year, got to meet Joe Jordan and a selfie Taylor and a whole bunch of other people. And he fit right in. He fit right in. It was just wonderful how the NAIFA family embrace. It was — I just embraced him and said, Come on over here. We'll talk. And then, of course, there's a couple of people says, well, right in his face, well, what are you going to do? Where are you going to live? What do you want to say? He goes, I'm just trying to, I'm trying to soak it all in. And he's wonderful. He's a wonderful young man. And there's nothing that I won't do to help him be as successful as he's possibly going to be.
And matter of fact, we, just talked two days ago, and we met with a marketing director for a local health insurance company firm, with brokerage firm, and we got him signed up on there, because he's doing kind of what I did is he's expanding his practice from just life and disability and annuity sales into the medical insurance arena, where he can have his own Group of Companies which you give them a base of income and also a groundwork for talking to other people about their life and disability needs and their savings for retirement. So he's doing it. I'm regenerative. I'm just really getting really regenerated and excited about it. I can't keep up with this kid, and so I'm excited to see where this leads, but I'm optimistic about the future for him and for the industry.
Chris Gandy 36:28
It's interesting, your approach. Obviously, you've had success. I want to ask this because I've actually talked to you in person. I've seen you in California, by the way, I'll be in California next week. I'm a buggy, and you're a very humble man. Can you share with us, like, just give us some space there of like, where does that come from? And then, how do you maintain that mindset? I think it's relative, but I think it's important. Because I think at times, we all drink our own Kool Aid, our ego gets out in the way, all those fun things, and we have a tendency to stink for a little bit because of just that's the nature like, Hey, we're superstars, right? But I think others would feel the same way that I do when having conversation with you. You're very personable. You're very humble in nature. I mean, you carry yourself and you, you listen there, you talk to everybody. And I'm kind of like, how's this guy doing? Like, okay, got it. So I think we can all learn something from you. Is share with us a little bit about kind of your mindset, your approach to success, and what success really means to you and how do you stay humble? I mean, I'd like to know those answers.
John Davidson 38:09
I don't really have an answer for that directly, nobody's ever asked me that, but I learned, I wasn't always like that. I always wanted to have all the ribbons on the badges at the conferences. I wanted to have, look at me. I'm successful. I wanted those accolades. I wanted people to say, Oh, you've done this, and this is, yeah, yeah. I guess, as you get older, Chris and things progress in life, when you become, I guess, confident that it's not about me anymore. It's more about what kind of a legacy did I lead? Is there someone I can help when you reach that particular point in time, it's like you get more from the interaction of like, people with Shay or even a new young agent, if you listen people, people are going through stuff. Everybody's got a story, and you have no idea what's really going on with them and how close they are to quitting or desperation or something major in their lives.
And whenever I'm at a NAIFA conference, I try to find some new people, and I think, oh, gosh, you're going to be there, the one you're doing your leadership training session for the new group of leaders from around the country that are going to come in when you're going to be president. I would just say, just be approachable. If you're approachable, because people look at you and they may have a preconceived idea that, oh, you were a past president, of this and that, and the other, whatever, whatever their idea of you is, go down and shake their hand and look them straight in the eye and let them know that they're the most important person in the room, that moment when you're talking to them because you care about them, I think that that comes across too when you're honest with people about that. It's not about, you know, I'll look at these or all these ribbons I have, or how many trophies, because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter that's all wood, hay and stubble.
I'll give you a quick little story. We had these big fires out here in California just last week. We were about 100 yards from being evacuated, and Didi and I were putting all kinds of stuff in the car and that other family pictures, irreplaceable family pictures and stuff, and just a few other little things. And we didn't have to evacuate that guy. But it was one of those moments where you said, Okay, what's really important to me? And it's my family. It's things that are replaceable. Everything else is Woodhead and stubble, as they say in the Bible, just it's gone. And a friend of mine called to check in, because, hey, did you take all your NAIFA troves and trivia? I didn't care. It didn't matter. It's the people. It's the people that you come into, come into your life, that make all the difference in the world. And people will pick up on that, Chris, you know that whenever somebody's around you and then they walk up, first of all, they say, this guy's really freaking tall.
He must have been a basketball player. You never get accused of being a jockey. So I get that, but they know that you did something, but they don't know to what degree you've been successful. But if they stay in that zone and talk to you for a few months, they're going to find out this guy's a regular guy. He's very athletic, and he's successful, he's kind and they're going to remember how you made them feel, not you know all these awards you had on your ribbons or what you have in your trophy case behind you. So for me, that's just again. Nobody ever asked me about that before. I hope that I don't come off as brash or braggadocious or holder now I just, I love relationships. I love with people. And as my window of time is shrinking, it's more important than ever.
Suzanne Carawan 41:41
So I think accessibility is key. I think the authenticity is key. But I think I'll tell you my observation of our key leaders at NAIFA who get to this point. It's Grace. You get to that gift of grace and you understand. You become very graceful, right? You can be very graceful and very understanding to your point. But I think it's grace, right? You become graceful and understanding where people are meeting them, where they are helping them, right, and understanding that you actually have that bit of power to be able to do that. And that's something when I think you power goes, it can go it can go wrong. But I think what I see that NAIFA has, that the great leaders have, is they have the ability to imbue that in others.
And that's something I think you've really done John. You can see it in Shay's face. You can see it in all the people you talk to them and people you can make them believe, because you're living proof of doing it. And it's a very gracious way of doing it. And I think that idea of grace, we don't talk about enough in our society. But both of you have that, and it's the ability to do that. It's very calming. It's very calming is? It's very real. It doesn't get more real than that.
Chris Gandy 42:52
Well, we live in a world of chaos and confusion, right? We're constantly trying and
Suzanne Carawan 43:00
And being hustled. I mean constantly being hustled and sold to right?
Chris Gandy 43:04
We're constantly trying to balance the points of what's important and what's not important. We're being fed lots of media stuff that should be important, and then trying to enlighten or we're trying to bring out our inner voice of saying, here's what's important, and here are the reasons why, it's a true challenge, because everybody has challenges, right? And so the part that I've been impressed with you, John, I know this wasn't that session. But is that every time I've talked to you, you always, never been the guy, yeah, you talk to people that are like, yeah, nice to meet you. I'll see you later. I got to go. You're like, yeah, so how's it going? How are you feeling?
You doing okay, you know, like, hey dog. Like, when are you coming up? Like, I'm like, hey. Like, okay. So you've been very kind in that, in that, in that net perspective, and that we appreciate you. So thank you so much for — Suzanne, do you want to highlight the future leaders? I don't know if many of you know, but NAIFA does have an incubator type of program for college students and people that want to get into this business, that have an interest or they're going through school. Suzanne, can you highlight the future?
Suzanne Carawan 44:24
Sure, I'd be happy to. So it's a quick program. It's all virtual. You can — it's designed for college and university students, usually in the latter half, but could be younger. We have had a couple of high school students dip in but basically we take them through letting them actually talk to real life advisors about what the industry is like, the multitude of careers that is within the industry, what it takes to, some success, buildings, tips and really how to be that top 1% if you will, the people that really make it, because it's a hard business, but you have the right chemistry to do it, and you've got a great mentor. And of course, of a great society around you to do it, then you develop these wonderful humans like we have before us right now. And I will debunk a couple of myths. I hear so many people saying, nobody joins associations anymore. There'll be one structure. You know what?
The generation that's in college now. And you'll meet Shay Upton if you come to one of our sessions in December. It couldn't be farther than the truth. He's drinking from a fire hose, and he's loving every minute the idea of having a career with such purpose that he's a people business. He wants to be in it for the people. And, you know, it's nice that it's lucrative, that can be a great side piece of it. But he's in it because he wants to believe in something and do something that has purpose. And I think that we have so much to offer at NAIFA. And one of the nice benefits about NAIFA is we have so many seasoned people who are out there who are willing to pay it forward. I think they forget how much the next generation needs you, wants you, and absolutely loves you. So I think that we can all our common ground is, let's build this next generation together. So we're excited about that. And everybody loves new members, everybody loves, you know, people that are energetic and excited about the business. And you can see it with John. It revitalizes him.
Chris Gandy 46:13
So if any of you out there are listening, and you know a university that has a financial service College, a financial service, opportunity marketing, sales, please get with Suzanne and her team to get them involved locally on the platform for future leaders, because they are doing it all over the country. I participated, I think, every time, to the speakers. And it is a good program. So with that being said, Mr. John, do you have anything else to say before we go to the lightning round with my lightning round? Because I got some good questions for you. They're really good, actually.
John Davidson 46:53
No, I think this has been just a great, great exercise. I've enjoyed participating because I didn't know what we're going to discuss. And so everything was spontaneous, I think, by design. And it really makes you grateful that there are people who are interested in what you might have to say, that they might take it to heart and make a difference in their lives and career. So, let's get that lightning round going.
Chris Gandy 47:15
All right, so, Suzanne, do you have anything before we get to the lightning round? If not, I'm going to go.
Suzanne Carawan 47:20
Let's go. All right, I think John's got it.
Chris Gandy 47:22
So, John, I don't know if you've seen the podcast before, but this is how it works. Is basically, I'm going to ask you some questions. Whatever comes to mind, that's the right answer. There's no right or wrong answer. This allows for people to get to know who you are and not necessarily who the president. John Davidson, okay, fair, perfect. All right. So, John, your favorite food?
John Davidson 47:45
Well, I'll get criticized for this. It used to be Fruit Loop, but anything that's sweet, I'm in.
Chris Gandy 47:51
Anything that's sweet — Fruit Loop. Suzanne, we have to remember some place there's some place that ice cream, another place.
John Davidson 47:59
Ice cream, good. Haagen Dazs, let's go, okay.
Chris Gandy 48:03
We need a max event of these places, right? Your proudest moment of being in the industry?
John Davidson 48:12
Ooh, boy, there's a lot. My proudest moment probably would be when we triumph on the optional federal charter legislation versus the naira? I mean Naira two over optional federal charter allowing agents to have control of where they wanted to sell business. Instead of having the insurance industry regulated by a single federal regulator appointed by the President, whoever it is, we wouldn't have this department later. The question now — we'd be out of business. So that's my favorite. Yeah.
Chris Gandy 48:43
If you could look back and tell your 22, 23-year-old self something, what advice would you give to yourself?
John Davidson 48:52
Easy question, sell more permanent life insurance and disability insurance early on. The benefits of that they, first of all, I are the disability stuff is as fabulous. The renewals are great. Usually you're with professional people or high-income earners on that, but that's another thing. But also the death benefit on permanent life insurance and all the guarantees associated with that make a huge difference. I'm paying off a little over $2 million in claims for policies that I wrote 45 years ago, on for two clients just this last week. These are policies I wrote 1987 amazing.
Chris Gandy 49:29
John. When you fail at something, how do you pick yourself up?
John Davidson 49:34
Try to learn from your mistakes. Ask other people to kind of evaluate, when you tell them what you did or didn't do right or wrong, get a different perspective on that. You don't try to self-examine and say, oh, I'll do it this way next time. Find somebody else who might find a blind spot in your process, and see if they can help you eliminate that.
Chris Gandy 49:52
Okay, I have a question that's just for you. I made this question just for you. the 80s Lakers, who is the best player on that team?
John Davidson 50:01
Magic.
Chris Gandy 50:03
I was thinking that. Thought you were gonna say Kareem, because, you know, you're from LA.
John Davidson 50:07
No, actually, and we end in my agency. Keith Erickson was the color commentator with Chick Hearn. Keith worked in mass mutual with us when he was off-season, stuff like that. He was, I got to meet all those people. Have a Laker sign ball with all of them, including Chick Burn and Keith air that I gave to my oldest son.
Chris Gandy 50:27
Did you ever get a chance to make it to the old forum?
John Davidson 50:30
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Forum in Englewood, yeah.
Chris Gandy 50:34
Suzanne, this is like nostalgic stuff. I know
John Davidson 50:40
We were there when the Bulls beat the Lakers and Michael Jordan was typical, Michael Jordan, who went up for that layup, and he changed hands with him and went the other side. Was like, oh my gosh, this end of that. So we got our lesson learned on that.
Chris Gandy 50:55
Hey, Suzanne, that was when it was they didn't even have the Lakers weren't the Lakers. They were Showtime. Showtime. Yeah, they were Showtime. It was, that's what they were known as. They came on NBC, as Showtime. So I had that question — was just for you. Last question is this, if you could go back in history and have dinner with anyone, whether they've deceased or they're still here with us as a leader now, anyone in this war, anywhere, anyone you can think of, who would you have dinner with, and why?
John Davidson 51:26
Jesus Christ? Okay, why? All the reasons you would think. What's your plan for my life? How can I serve you?
Chris Gandy 51:37
Very good, very good. John, do you have anything else? NAIFA nation is listening. If not, I'll close us back to you.
John Davidson 51:46
Appreciate the opportunity just to share with everybody, and hopefully, again, you've got some nuggets you can use in your practice to move you forward and make a difference in the life and in your career.
Chris Gandy 51:56
Suzanne, do you have anything?
Suzanne Carawan 51:58
Hey, if you're out there and you're listening and you're not a member of this incredible organization. You need to sign up today at belong.naifa.org/join. Get to know these types of guys every day of your life.
Chris Gandy 52:11
Mister John Davidson. Thank you so much for your service. Thank you so much for leading NAIFA. You leave us in a good place. I promise you, I won't disappoint in a couple years, when we bring all the energy and the all the enthusiasm necessary for us to grow this fine organization, thank all of you for tuning in for Advisor Today's podcast, the one and only NAIFA's podcast, where we give the voice of the advisor. Back to you for learning and collectively so we can serve our clients better by learning from each other. So thank you to all of you. We'll see you next week. President John Davidson, thank you so much, sir.
John Davidson 52:57
Thank you.
Outro 53:00
Thanks for joining us for NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series. Make sure to subscribe to get future episodes, and if you're interested in coming on the show, let us know.
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