Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

• [03:29] Bobby Johnson and Joel Tabin discuss why life insurance is crucial during economic uncertainty
• [07:49] How advisors can overcome discomfort initiating life insurance conversations
• [12:30] AI’s role in financial advising versus the human element
• [19:52] How regional companies can support independent agents
• [26:57] The industry challenges in training the next generation of advisors
• [33:04] Tips for building a career and generational wealth through life insurance
• [34:42] The value of joining NAIFA as an advisor

In this episode…

Too many Americans are underinsured or entirely uninsured, leaving families vulnerable to financial ruin when the unexpected happens. Despite market uncertainty and increased awareness around risk, life insurance continues to be an overlooked part of holistic financial planning. So why are so many advisors still hesitant to bring up life insurance with clients?

Bobby Johnson, an experienced distribution leader, and Joel Tabin, a seasoned regional sales director, unpack this issue with practical guidance. Bobby emphasizes that education is the first step — advisors must be equipped to understand underwriting, product fit, and how life insurance fills gaps in comprehensive financial plans. Joel recommends starting with a life insurance policy review, which often uncovers outdated coverage and creates opportunities to deliver real client value. Both stress the need for human connection in an AI-driven world, pointing out that no algorithm can replace an advisor’s compassion during a life insurance claim.

In this episode of the Advisor Today podcast, co-hosts Chris Gandy and Kathleen Owings interview Bobby Johnson and Joel Tabin, financial services professionals, about the evolving dynamics of life insurance. Bobby and Joel explore the critical role of life insurance in financial planning, discuss advisor education, the impact of technology on the industry, and strategies for attracting the next generation of financial professionals.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Chris Gandy on LinkedIn
• Kathleen Owings on LinkedIn 
• NAIFA
• Bobby Johnson on LinkedIn
• Joel Tabin on LinkedIn

Quotable Moments: 

• “We want to be the home of the independent life insurance agent. It’s that simple.”
• “Life insurance needs to be reviewed — it needs to be constantly kept up to date.” 
• “You can have the best-laid plans, but if you're not there, they never get fulfilled.” 
• “There’s always responsibilities that people are going to have that life insurance can solve for.”
• “There will always be a role for an advisor in a field like this.”

Action Steps:

1. Offer life insurance policy reviews to every client: Many clients are unaware their current coverage is outdated, underfunded, or lacks essential benefits, and regular reviews open the door to deeper client engagement and improved protection strategies.
2. Educate yourself on simplified underwriting and digital tools: Advisors often avoid life insurance due to perceived complexity, but modern tools can reduce friction and make offering protection easier.
3. Start protection conversations with client goals, not fear: Leading with personal and family goals helps clients connect emotionally and builds trust without feeling pressured.
4. Leverage your regional support team: Regional directors are experienced in case design and underwriting, making them valuable partners in delivering strong client solutions.
5. Encourage younger professionals to join the industry: The advisor workforce is aging, and new talent is essential for sustaining long-term client service and growth.

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by the National Association of Insurance and Financial Advisors, or NAIFA, the #1 association for producers in financial services. 

At NAIFA, we enhance professional skills, promote ethical conduct, and advocate for legislative and regulatory environments.

By joining NAIFA, you gain access to a partnership that elevates your performance while providing greater purpose to your professional work. NAIFA members are happier, make more money, and stay in the business longer.

Get in touch with NAIFA and learn more about how to join NAIFA by visiting NAIFA.org.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Intro 00:02

Welcome to NAIFA’s Advisor Today podcast series, where we focus on how financial advisers work, live and give to their local communities and our greater financial services industry. Now let's get started with the show.

Chris Gandy 00:20

Hi everyone. Welcome to Advisor Today podcast Very Own where we relaunched it. And now we have one of our another one of our surprise co-hosts. Who's going to join us Kathleen Owings. Kathleen, how are you?

Kathleen Owings 00:35

Hello, Chris. I'm great. It's great to be here. I'm excited.

Chris Gandy 00:38

It is great to see you with that button on. I didn't break my. You are.

Kathleen Owings 00:43

That's okay. We kind of coordinated, though, in our jackets.

Chris Gandy 00:46

You are sporting the cause today. So with that being said, Kathleen, we're super excited to have you. And those of you who don't know, we relaunched the podcast at the beginning of the year and now we've got a new emphasis on new and original thought content, so stay tuned. We look forward to bringing it to you. And Kathleen is our wonderful guest host for this podcast.

So with that being said, Zack Huels, what do we look like for sponsorship for today's podcast?

Zack Huels: 01:15

Today's sponsor is Midland National. Are you an independent financial professional looking for a strong, reliable partner? Go with Midland National. With over 115 years of financial strength, top ratings from major agencies and a commitment to innovation, we provide the tools you need to succeed, enjoy direct access to office support, cutting-edge technology and specialized advanced markets training, all designed to simplify business and drive results. Plus, with regional sales partners spread across the country, you'll always have the local support you need when you need it.

When it comes to products, the competitive portfolio of top-ranked, indexed and universal life insurance options designed from everything from wealth accumulation to guarantees and flexibility, along with a robust term product offers a variety of financial solutions to meet a wide range of client needs. Backed by an employee-owned mindset, they're invested in your success. Join Midland National and experience the power of partnership. Visit Midland National. Com or click the link in the podcast description to get started.

Back to you.

Chris Gandy 02:15

Thank you so much, Zack. We are as I mentioned, we are so pleased to have one of our guest co-hosts, Kathleen. Kathleen, if you could do, please do us the honors and introducing our guests, our guests for today's podcast.

Kathleen Owings 02:30

I would be happy to do that. Chris. So today on the podcast, we have Bobby Johnson, who is the chief distribution officer from Midland National Life Insurance Company. And with him also from Midland is Joel Tobin, who is regional sales director from Midland. So we're really excited, guys, to have you on the podcast and to have a conversation about something that we probably all think is very important, and that's life insurance and protecting our loved ones and family members.

So thanks to both of you for joining us.

Chris Gandy 02:58

Let's jump into this life insurance conversation, shall we? So why is I mean, share with us a little bit about both of your backgrounds, how long you've been in the industry and why life insurance in times like we're in now. I mean, we are on the precipice of one of the largest market swings ever. Right. Why is life insurance so important as we start to look at uncertainty?

Bobby Johnson 03:29

I'm going to say this and we may cover it a little bit later. But one of the beautiful things about Midland National Life is our distribution team. And Joel is obviously a regional sales director. So I'm going to let Joel start the first answer.

Joel Tabin 03:47

Sure. No thank you Bob. You know, this is you know, this is a time When? When life insurance really can't be more important. You know, nobody, nobody knows when, when they're gonna when they're going to pass away.

Right? Nobody knows. You know when, when, when they might have a situation where they need living benefits. Nobody knows. You know, life is unpredictable and your life doesn't always match up with what's going to happen in the broader markets.

If you're someone who, for example, owns a business or has or has a lot of equity holdings, and you're coming to a point in your life where either it's the end of your life or something happens unexpectedly. The value of life insurance at a time like this is paramount. And I think about that all the time. We talk about life insurance as a way to be a buffer for an estate. We talk about it as a cushion for beneficiaries, and it all sounds very theoretical until we come to a point in time like this.

And then we're reminded again about the value of life insurance. So I just over the weekend, even waking up this morning thinking about the value of what we do every day, was really more top of mind now than it's been in some time. Just the value of life insurance as protection for families and for businesses is, is never more present than today.

Bobby Johnson 05:16

You know, I would echo what Joel says in different markets, right. But I would say that the thing about life insurance is, no matter what the market conditions are or no matter what time is, life insurance has a concept to fit that particular time frame. It just depends on where we're at. Right. But I will say if you're if you would ask when is the right time for life insurance.

What market, what segment. It's anytime. You know, one of the things that we truly struggle with as an industry is we don't have enough people insured. I mean, if you look at Limerick stats, I think it's 51% is either underinsured or not insured at all. And when I think of the just this past week in the town where I'm from, you know, there's GoFundMe pages set up for funeral costs.

And, you know, I would say as I wake up every day and try to figure out solutions for life insurance and those individuals that need coverage, you know, how do we get rid of that? How you know that that's terribly sad to me to see that somebody has to go do a GoFundMe for a funeral cost. Right. And so from that standpoint, whether it's business owner markets, from a, from a cash value standpoint, or if it's all the way down to the simple ten year term just to put coverage, affordable coverage on a family that if that breadwinner doesn't make it home that night, you don't add tragedy upon tragedy. You know, it's one thing to lose a loved one or to lose a breadwinner, but then you throw in the financial crisis that can happen if you don't have life insurance is really something that as an industry, we need to solve.

So from that perspective, it's always the right time to look at life insurance, whether it's new life insurance in a review to see if you need more. It's always the right time, in my opinion.

Kathleen Owings 07:07

Bobby or Joel, how would you say if someone is struggling maybe to integrate more life insurance into their practice? I mean, I will admit I came from a life insurance broker dealer. It was New England Securities when they were around, so I'm dating myself a bit there. So protection really was first and foremost in my conversations with clients. Now, quite frankly, I'm more on the asset side.

It's still very big on protection, but if someone maybe is more on the asset side or they're younger in the industry, how would you suggest they really bring up this conversation? Rather than saying, do you want your family to be running the Go Fund Me page? You don't want to go doomsday like that, But how do you — how would you suggest they start that conversation if they're not comfortable?

Bobby Johnson 07:49

You know, I think first of all, it's education, right? So from an advisor standpoint, more and more people are coming into the business from an advisor assets under management. You know, managing money standpoint. That's the exciting part to them. Life insurance is a concern because when you look at an advisor, the concern they have is, oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to go through a process right there is underwriting and it can take 4 to 6 weeks, sometimes longer depending on the health.

And I think it's really about educating that advisor on if you're going to do what I would call, you know, fully funded planning, you know, holistic financial planning, life insurance has to be the basis of that conversation. And no matter what you are doing in the market and your returns are good, bad, indifferent, whatever that means, you know, you can have the best laid plans in the world for somebody who's 30 years old with a new, you know, child and a new family. But if you're not there, those plans never get fulfilled. And I think that's probably the best thing about life insurance is it is a, you know, it closes that gap. It gets you to where you want to be, and it takes care of your family.

And the case that you're not there. So I think it's education. I think, you know, again, Joel is in the field every day. And that's what he's trying to do with his advisors is walk them through the process and how as an industry, we need to make it easier for them. And there's a lot of talk about processes right now about making life easier for the consumer to do business.

Joel Tabin 09:18

You know, it's a great question, Kathleen. And one of the things, you know, we talked to a lot of financial advisors, a lot of folks even like yourself, who maybe started out at a life insurance-oriented environment, and now they find themselves primarily, you know, in the asset side of the world. And one of the things we really emphasize is the value of a life insurance review. Making sure that you just review whatever life insurance your clients have and from clients who have frankly not a lot of assets up to extremely sophisticated clients. We often find that the life insurance they have is out of date in some way.

Perhaps it doesn't have death benefit guarantees, it doesn't have living benefits. The policy is underfunded, just those are three big examples. You know, folks don't buy life insurance and kind of hold the policy and review it every day. Life insurance is something they buy. Often they stick on it.

They stick on the, you know, in the shelf someplace or in a filing cabinet. And they don't look at it for a really, really long time. It's something maybe they'd rather not think about. Life insurance needs to be reviewed. It needs to be constantly kept up to date.

And we explain to advisors, and they find this all the time that when you do a do review, not only are you creating more opportunities for life insurance, you know potential life insurance sales, updating life insurance policies, but you're doing amazing things for your clients because there are things clients don't even realize they don't have about their life insurance and their advisors, for that matter, because they haven't reviewed it in some time. And life insurance has changed so much in just the last 5 or 10 years that, you know, a review was always in order. And so that's a great way for an advisor who maybe hasn't worked with life insurance in a while to step into it, offer your client a life insurance review, and great things will happen.

Bobby Johnson 11:18

You know, Kathleen, let me add one thing that Joel's talking about. It's, you know, there's stages, right? There's the young, there's the you know, you get whether it's tax planning, you get to the I call it three different stages of life insurance. But one thing I've worked with Joel for 20 plus years now, once as you know, as a peer for 15 years. And I'll never forget Joel's presentation about 15, 20 years ago when he said, hey, there's the theory of never-ending responsibility.

And it stuck with me way back when, because there's always responsibilities that people are going to have that life insurance can solve for. And so it's something that he does very well.

Chris Gandy 11:55

So gents let me ask let me ask this question. Let me ask this question. Let's stay on the life insurance topic. The word on the street is AI is taking out the role of the advisor. Right?

That's the word on the streets. Now I'm going to throw it back to you guys and tell me your thoughts around just the topic. I have my personal thoughts, but I'll give it to you guys as thought leaders. And then Kathleen will ask you your perspective since you are in the field, as am I. So let's go to Joel first.

How's that?

Joel Tabin 12:30

Yeah.,I mean, what I would say is, you know, it's at points in history like this where I truly wonder how prevalent I will be. I mean, I was at a meeting with a bunch of advisors on Friday, maybe 10 or 12 advisors, and I think every single advisor at the meeting said their phone was ringing steadily throughout the day from clients who wanted to talk to them about what was happening in the market. I'm not sure how somebody consults their AI bot. You know, when the market's down, you know, a thousand points and people are wondering what's going to happen next.

So there's just an enormous emotional value first, first and foremost to having a human relationship. Does that mean there will be folks, you know, you know, millennials or Zoomers going forward who may, you know, like that kind of AI technology and use it. Yes. But when it comes to finances, when it comes to issues that really touch on the core values that that individuals have, you know, emotional issues, Choose issues that many people who are frankly financially successful. But they don't want to they don't.

They don't want to think about too much. They want someone to talk to about. I just I think there will always be a role for an advisor in a field like this. Will I have a place? Certainly.

It has a place in the life insurance world right now with underwriting, for example, and risk management. But the ability to sit down with a human being either over the phone or in person or over Zoom and share your emotions and share your thoughts and your feelings and work through issues. I think that will always be a feature of our industry.

Chris Gandy 14:12

Thanks, Joel. Bobby, any thoughts around the topic?

Bobby Johnson 14:18

Absolutely. I think Joel hits on the number one key and that's the human touch. You know, if I, if I look I go back to my days when the robo advisor was going to take over financial planning and it didn't. Right? If you look at stat on, you know, direct to consumer business, it stayed flat at about 6% of the industry for the past, you know, six, seven years.

I think AI is going to help the advisor in a lot of ways. When I think of financial needs analysis, when I think of, you know, analyzing in a quicker manner, I think it's going to have its place. Right. AI is here to stay. But you know, when you're sitting down with a business owner and you're working through his particular dynamics of his business and what he's trying to do, they just want that trusting they want to be able to set across and look face to face with somebody to say, hey, we got you on this.

And so I think, again, I think AI is going to be there to assist, but I think the human element will always be a part of life insurance planning. And where it matters most, I think is on the back end when you really have to dig in and want to claim is filed. How do I walk a client through that? I don't believe it can. I think that's the advisor piece that's missing from that.

Kathleen Owings 15:34

So I guess I could just say ditto. I mean, I agree with both Joel and Bobby on their assessment. I mean, this is my 18th year in the business. So I've been started right before the Great Recession. It was like the best training time ever because I didn't have that many clients.

To be quite frank. I was building the business trying to figure it out, and I saw the Great Recession. I thought, what is happening? You know, I saw that extreme roller coaster of emotions. And I've been through several since then, of course.

And to kind of tie that string across all the statements, AI is not going to replace us. I mean, I think, Joel, you said it, your client's not going to call a bot or start. I mean, they can try and chat with a bot, but I don't know what the bot's going to say. And Bobby, you mentioned this as well. People want to know you're there and you care.

And the claims process is probably one of the worst times of their lives, and they want someone there walking through with them and being that level head. Because I've been through enough claims with clients now, they're not always thinking straight and they don't know what to do, so they're looking for a human being to be there for them, connect with them. I mean, I've sadly been to clients' funerals and been at those. I've been to a client's child's funeral. I mean, those are the worst things we can imagine in our life.

And the last thing you want is a bot. So I think the people who may gravitate towards that, those consumers who may gravitate towards that, at some point, it might hit them. They don't really want it. They want the ease and the convenience at the moment. And maybe when you're younger, that's fine.

But as life starts to happen, it gets more complicated and you need someone there. And that's what I see myself as, is kind of weeding through. I actually think the AI and all the technology makes it even worse. So that makes our opportunity even bigger to help people. It's not making it easier.

Everyone thinks, well, not everyone. Most people think technology is making it easier. I think it's making it more complicated. So that's where our need is even greater. It's my thought.

So bring on the AI and the bots because they're not taking us down.

Chris Gandy 17:44

You know, I'll just say this and we'll move to the next topic is we can't make short-term decisions for long-term gain. I think short term people will gravitate towards the shiniest object. And so that's the way technology is going. But long term, when it comes down to it, what they're really looking for is they're looking for a long-term sustainable relationship that they can build a you know, as human beings, we just go to the very basic element of it. It's human beings.

We desire to be around other human beings. Right? That's the nature of being human and part of AI is not having the human elements. It actually works. What it tries to do, it actually works against itself because it physically can't feel like when you're with a family, you know, you feel that swell of emotion that comes over you because you think about your mortality and your family, and you connect in a way that the computer just can't.

Even if they gave it all the emotions and was a robot, you just can't connect. You know, when you hug someone for they say two minutes, which is a long time to do it, right? You hug someone for two minutes, you exchange emotion, you know, and that is part of the human element. And I believe life insurance is a human element. It is a part of who we are.

And at the end of the day, we care about what's being done for our family, which is the reason why you need someone who you say, hey, call this person, not call the one 800 number. Can you imagine what that's like? So with that being said, it's a topic we've asked, you know, and kind of our new angle of kind of what's going on is technology and what's happening with that. But let's talk about Midland and let's talk a little bit about for those who, who, who may not be familiar. Right.

Because we do have our constituents are watching and looking and new people that are coming into the business. Tell us a little bit about Midland and kind of where they fit in the space of insurance.

Bobby Johnson 19:52

Well, you want me to jump on that one right quick for you and then I'll, I'll let you from a regional perspective. You know, I would say, Chris, that we want to be the home of the independent life insurance agent. It's that simple. We pride ourselves on relationships, and we talk a lot about that. We talk about Midland National as having direct access to our company.

One of the hardest things you talk about human element in underwriting for advisors is going out and having a client that's rated for a health issue or a decline or something that goes on. And, you know, Midland provides the opportunity for that agent to call our home office and talk to an underwriter, you know, help them through that process of why, why do we have to rate table four instead of a standard and all of this? So when you think about that, you know, we have that opportunity for the agent to do that. The other thing is we like to celebrate together. You know, we're coming up on our convention season in a couple of weeks where we take our top advisors to convention.

And, man, you have people wanting to get out to our convention because of the lifelong friendships they've created over that time, not only with our home office, but with our regionals. And so, you know, it really is. We want to be the home. My job every day waking up is to build a better home, whether that's through processes and working through our teams, whether that's with our product innovation. But at the end of the day, we want that advisor to look middle and Midland National first.

And that goes back from a years long history. I want to say 40 plus years of our distribution system, which includes our regionals. And as you said earlier, we have regionals throughout the country. We have 24. We're designed that way.

So an agent doesn't have to look very far to find a regional in their backyard to work with. And then from a regional perspective, what our regionals do best is typically most of them are securities license. So they understand the planning process. And our regionals can go in and literally sit down directly with that advisor to find cases, to find opportunities in their book of business. And that's where Joel and the rest of our team does very, very well.

Joel Tabin 21:58

That's exactly I mean, that's great. I mean, that's exactly right. And Bobby was a regional and, you know, and that's one of the wonderful things about Midland. There's a long history of what we were talking about before, which is the personal touch. Midland has local representation with, you know, great, if I could say regional sales directors and staffs that they have that can help the advisor, a very hands-on home office as well a direct access relationship with the Home Office.

And of course, wonderful competitive products, especially in the indexed UL space as well as term. We work with all kinds of advisors, both more insurance-oriented folks as well as financial advisors, lots of training, both at the company level and at the regional level. You know, it's truly an environment where an advisor, a broker, an agent can be in business for themselves, but not be left alone. And wonderful relationships that form as well in and amongst the advisors who are, who are with the Midland family, all independent professionals, but who have a wonderful synergy amongst themselves, a synergy that's reinforced at the regional level but also at the national level at Midland events like what Bobby was describing the convention where there's a lot of idea sharing and just, you know, people picking each other's brains about best practices in the field. So really a wonderful package.

Both Bobby and I started at Midland as young advisors and kind of came into this regional role. And Bobby, of course, corporate leadership role because we loved, you know, the value proposition and felt so strongly about it as we worked through it as advisors and carried that enthusiasm over into our roles as, as, you know, as wholesalers and recruiters and, and corporate leaders. So just a lot there for the independent advisor.

Chris Gandy 23:54

So with that being said, gents, let me ask this. I see that I've been around for 25 years now, so I'm recovering, but I see the changes that are happening in the career systems around the world, around the country. If you had a crystal ball, even though I know you don't. Where is the industry going? I think I'll start with Kathleen, because I think we — her and I kind of came out of the same space right where it was one size fits all.

You know, we were all fit to the same culture, and everybody sells, you know, life insurance and risk management products. And if you don't, you can't go in your license. And there's a whole bunch of other things. Right. But we kind of came out of, I think, a very thing.

Similar spaces and our practices have evolved over time. But if you look back at some of those places, those places aren't the places where new advisors are going. Some are, but lots of them are looking at different options now, like even the independent channel or the or the Ria channel, whatever it may be. So even though you can't predict the future, let's talk about the future of the industry where you see it going from your perspective. And I'll start with Kathleen, since she is an advisor, kind of her perspective.

And then we'll kind of just go around the horn.

Kathleen Owings 25:20

I agree with you, Chris. We did come from a similar structure machine, if you will. Where was that in maybe an insurance based broker dealer and you had securities. You were really looking at the comprehensive piece. I think where it is changing, there's less of that.

We can probably all agree upon that, that that system is not really there as much as it was. What I am seeing is more of the independent space growing. And then as someone who's with an independent broker dealer, I do look at myself and my practice say, okay, some of that onus of that next generation is on me. I mean, it's kind of taking that onus upon myself to say, look, those big machines aren't maybe bringing in the advisors that we need, frankly. I mean, we see the numbers with baby boomers transition of wealth.

The numbers are big. And frankly, for those of us in the business, I think they're exciting and scary at the same time to think, oh my gosh, this could be a tsunami that we have to take on. So what I'm starting to think of, I joke in my office, they used to call me the Young Gun. I'm like, okay, guys, I'm not the young gun anymore. I think I'm the middle-aged gun.

I'm past that phase of my career and thinking about that next generation and that next young gun to bring in, because we need to do that because if those big companies are not there to do it, per se, who's going to do it? You know, these kids coming out of college aren't going to be excited to go to a wirehouse, per se. They may be, but I think that's changed as well. So it's a shift in our mindset about how we grow our businesses and look at that next generation. And there's just more leadership opportunity, I think, for all of us that are in it, in that maybe that mid-phase.

Bobby Johnson 26:57

You know, it's interesting and I completely agree with you, Kathleen. It's this could be an hour long podcast in itself, you know, from an industry perspective. Chris, we're in a unique time and Midland is in the PGA space. And then you have your brokerage space, right? And in the brokerage space, you're seeing a lot of aggregation.

There's some large, large aggregators that are just, you know, I'd say gobbling up, for lack of better words, smaller agencies and some bigger agencies for that matter. I don't know where that's going to go at some point in time. I think there's can you get too big? You know, we talk about that a lot where if you get a smaller agency, they don't want to be a number. They want.

I go back to relationships again to where you have that. And I think there's an opportunity for our space, that independent space that's looking for that home. It doesn't mean the other side's bad or our side's good. I mean, we need them both, right? The, the I would say in that MGA space, the brokerage space, you have scale.

So you have the opportunity to solve that problem. I talked about earlier more people right to cover more people. But I think too, that's also going on in the securities business. So when you look at Joel recruiting advisors from broker dealers, we just had another large broker dealer buy another big broker dealer that was announced last week. And you're seeing the aggregation of these broker-dealers.

And I think it lends itself to our opportunity to be able to, to, to as they're going through that we can be the beacon of saying, hey, help life insurance be simpler for me and be a process. I think the other two other things that we're going to struggle with as an industry right now and number one is training. I would say there's some mutual companies out there that do training very, very well in the independent space. I would say we don't have the time or the resources to train somebody right out of college. It's just that's just the nature of our business.

So. So how do we train people? How do we get people from that college looking at life insurance, and I do like the holistic financial planning side. So I think people coming out of that, could we put programs together? It's interesting.

My son, who is 23 years old, calls me two weeks ago and said he had an interview with a large mutual fund company, and I was like, what? Where did this come from? In 30 years, he's never in his 23 years. He's never asked dad about what he does. But it's out there.

So the message is getting to that younger generation. But I think another area that we're missing out on is the different demographic areas. You know, it's the you've all heard it pale, male and stale. Our gender, our life insurance sales guys, they're aging out. And we need to bring new demographics, the new age groups into our industry.

Or to your point, that tsunami is going to hit and we can't take care of the individuals that need to be taken care of.

Chris Gandy 29:53

Great perspective.

Joel Tabin 29:54

I would just I would just echo. Yeah, I would just echo everything, you know, Bobby and Kathleen said, I think a lot of what of what's going, of what we see happening right now and what's going to continue to happen over the next generation. Are firms recruiting younger people directly out of college or out of school? I'm talking about independent firms. That's where a lot of training is taking place, a lot of where a lot of where the recruiting into our industry, where our new industry leaders is taking place.

And that really only highlights the value of company partners like Midland National to help these firms not only train themselves, but also train their new people on the value of life insurance, how to incorporate life insurance into a full financial program. All of this is so important in today's world, because it really has become a much more decentralized industry. You do not have these large, you know, big, you know, career companies recruiting, you know, dozens of very few. Anyway, dozens of college folks, you know, for a class every single year. It's very much individual independent firms recruiting a few people at a time to grow their business.

And that's a wonderful way for the business to grow. And it will continue to grow. It just shifts the emphasis onto different facets of the industry to do training, to do support. And I think a company like Midland National, especially our model, our regional model and our direct model is very well suited for really what's been happening. And I think what will be, you know, the future of our industry over the next generation.

Chris Gandy 31:41

Yeah, I think the industry is, you know, in 25 years, quarter of a century, a long time. But, you know, the industry is changing. That's clear. And either you're ahead of it or you're behind it. Right.

And that's I think, embracing that. You mentioned training and development. I came out of one where they count themselves as the go to for training and development. The challenge with that is once you learn how to sell this stuff, you figure out that, hey, that's not the most profitable business model there. So you start to say, wait, wait a minute.

How does this work? Right. So. It's really interesting. You know, I heard a joke the other day.

I'll see if I can. I can remember it correctly. I heard a joke the other day. Is that a general agent, a general agent, and a new agent is driving in a car. Maybe you guys have heard this.

And the general agent says he looks over and he says, you know, I'd like to buy the house one day. He's like, that's interesting because I own the subdivision that GA says, well, that's interesting because I own the subdivision. So you're like, what different mindset, right? Like, okay, so that was that was that was interesting. I thought it was a pretty funny joke, actually.

You know, but just on our partners, they may not think it's funny, so we may have to go. Chris.

Bobby Johnson 33:04

Isn't that joke? Did the part that's interesting is there? There is such opportunity for this industry. And you know, I've been very blessed to raise a family and do the things I've done, build the relationships in an amazing industry and the lifestyle that you're able to create with life insurance and financial services, while at the same time taking care of people. And there's not a lot of industries that I've recognized that you can do both.

And so I think if we can solve that problem of getting more individuals into our space, the more people can own subdivisions and build generational wealth and build a practice that literally takes care of people when they need it most.

Chris Gandy 33:58

Well, I'll just I'll just I'll close that kind of conversation with just simply saying the realization is there's other ways to do it now that we didn't have before. Right. There's so many ways to engage in it. That makes sense. There's multiple ways to get into the game.

Now, you know, if we're using, you know, we are on the precipice of the Final four being done. And so, you know, to get into the game there's so many ways to get into the game now. So share with us a little bit about your history Joel Bobby, like how long have you been in the industry? Where'd you come from? Will we see you at NAIFA events and how did you get connected to NAIFA?

Joel Tabin 34:42

Well, well, I've been in the industry now almost 30 years, just about 30 years. I started at a large career company shortly out of college. Like, like a lot of young people did, being recruited and smiling and dialing and primarily selling long-term care insurance when I started and cold calling and doing all the things that that young, that young life insurance people do. Then I found Midland National a few years into my career, and it's been a wonderful relationship, first as an advisor and now as a, as a regional sales director. You know, you know, everything Bobby said about the industry.

You know, your ability to help people, your ability to, you know, have a life while doing well for yourself and being there for your family and other families. All of it, all of it is so true. My experience with Midland has been remarkable. I've watched I've watched the company and, you know, our parent company, Sammons, grow into a real leader in financial services and have watched not only personal relationships with home office folks like Bobby really flower over the years and watch them grow. But watch the advisors that we work with now for me and in my, in my case for decades, watch their watch their practices blossom in so many areas.

And what I'm so excited about going forward is really how a rising tide lifts all boats. As the advisors we work with at NAIFA, as their practices grow in the areas of AUM, in the areas of annuities, in the areas of group benefits, their life insurance business grows as well because they have more clients and they have more access to assets. They have more access to referral opportunities. So it's just it's wonderful to see. And I've seen it throughout my career.

I've been involved with NAIFA Nation personally, really almost since the beginning, since my early days in the career system, going back now at least 15 or 17 years ago, I made it to the board of my of my local FFA, where I was active for several years, and then stepped off the board and let others take over. I'm at FFA events all the time. I've made some wonderful industry relationships, folks that to this day are working with us at Midland National at FFA events. And you know, when Bobby had told us that Midland National was working with FFA like this, I was so excited because FFA is our voice and more advisors, you know, need to know that I think they do. But you know, you can't, you can't repeat the message enough.

You know, you know, NAIFA is our voice on the federal level. NAIFA is our voice on the state level. And it's a wonderful resource for advisors to learn, to connect, to Connect, to grow, to feel like they're part of something larger than just their own business. It's been a wonderful experience for me in my practice, in my years with Midland. And I encourage all advisors when I work with them and talk with them to be involved with NAIFA, because there's a lot of benefit to it.

Bobby Johnson 38:02

I'll try to keep mine somewhat short. Just like Joel, I came right out of college and started selling life insurance, and it was a part-time job for me. Thinking that I was going to grad school and I'll never forget the comment that I told my GA at the time, sure, I'll come sell life insurance until I get a real job. 30, 31 years later. You know, I started with a small company out of Springfield, Missouri, Franklin Life.

I moved to Midland in 1996, and so I am in my 30th year with Midland National. They were my primary life company for all the reasons we've talked about here today. And then, you know, I was in the advisor world, and I just got to a point of I felt like I needed a new challenge. I love Midland and the people there. And I said, you know what?

I can recruit people to sell Midland National. It's a great place. So in 2006, our current president, Jerry Blair, was my sales vice president, and he took a chance on me and said, yeah, come over and you can run half of Texas, which was the north half. And so I was peers with Joel for 15 years as a regional sales director, and I recruited to the Midland National Story, and it hasn't changed since then. In 2020, we were going through some changes at Midland, and Jerry called me again.

He had elevated to the chief distribution officer at that time, and I got a call out of nowhere and says, hey, I want you to come run Midland Distribution for me. And so in 2020 — October of 2020, I made the transition into the corporate world. And then Jerry got promoted to president soon after. And I filled the CDO role soon after he did. And so it's been a unique experience for me, but I think I bring a different lens to our executive meetings, because I've got such a unique lens on the actual process of selling life insurance.

Recruiting two life insurance, which is our lifeblood at Midland, is recruiting new producers. And then, of course, you know, waking up and helping product in actuary and all the things that we do from an executive level to put out products that solve problems for, for our clients. As far as was concerned, I was a part of NAIFA years ago as a regional, just like Joel. Love the support that we get there. I mean, there are lifeline to our legislators as far as what I'm doing now with them, it's been a whirlwind.

I have to give kudos to Andrew Wren, our leader of our Advanced markets team. Andrew brought this opportunity to us. We signed on as a sponsorship. So when you ask, what are we doing going forward? I am going to be at the DC event.

I don't I think it's on the Hill December or I'm sorry, May 19th and 20th. I've been asked to be on the independent leadership board, so I think my process and my activity with NAIFA is only going to grow. And I'm certainly excited to be able to help our industry and be a voice for Midland National on how we protect our industry.

Chris Gandy 41:09

Thank you. Bobby. Kathleen, any other questions before we go to the lightning round? We take them there.

Kathleen Owings 41:18

No. Maybe I had a lightning round question. I could ask it now if you want.

Chris Gandy 41:21

Let's do it. Hold on one second, guys.

Kathleen Owings 41:23

Sure.

Chris Gandy 41:23

We're gonna take you to the lightning round. The lightning round. If you've ever watched our podcast, it's basically, you know, not on the Budweiser hot seat, but you're just asking. We're going to ask you a series of questions. Most of them, you know, don't overthink it, because what people want to know is people want to know that you're real people, right?

And they want to know, like, yeah, you know, people remember, hey, Chris is the guy that actually likes lasagna. So when he comes here, like I take him to lasagna, it's the weirdest thing, but it's kind of fun. So just be yourself. Relax. It's not.

We're not going to ask you. You know what you did in eighth grade when you were. You know, we're not going to ask you any of that. That's all buried. Now, we're going to talk to you just about just so people get to know you a little bit.

So we'll start off with simple and we'll go from Joel to Bobby, Bobby to Joel. Okay. And then we'll go that route okay. So first question is Joel your favorite food?

Joel Tabin 42:10

Pizza.

Chris Gandy 42:11

Pizza Bobby.

Bobby Johnson 42:13

Oh, Mexican.

Chris Gandy 42:13

Food. Mexican food. See how easy that was? You already knew the answer, right? Kathleen?

Go ahead.

Kathleen Owings 42:21

Okay. Who's your favorite band?

Joel Tabin 42:24

The police.

Bobby Johnson 42:26

I gotta divide it. I'm sorry. I grew up with a 60s dad. BG's number one, Van Halen number two.

Kathleen Owings 42:33

Nice. I like the number two. I'm a kid of the 90s, so I'm with you. I also like the police, by the way.

Chris Gandy 42:42

All right. Question is, if you could look back to your 20 year old self, 21 year old self and give yourself advice, what advice would you give yourself, Joel?

Joel Tabin 42:53

Take more chances. You know, you know the old expression. You know, the biggest risks are sometimes the ones not taken. Don't you know, bet on yourself and take more chances.

Chris Gandy 43:04

Bobby.

Bobby Johnson 43:05

Enjoy the journey.

Chris Gandy 43:07

Enjoy the journey. That's good, that's good. Last question. Bobby, I'll ask you this. We'll start with you.

Your proudest moment in the insurance industry thus far. Ooh.

Bobby Johnson 43:21

Proudest moment in the insurance industry. You said we couldn't overthink that. That's a tough one. That goes back 30 years. Proudest moment.

Holly. Proudest moment? You know, I think one of the proudest moments is being elevated in this current role. To be able to work with a team that I get to work with on a day-to-day basis, which is Joel's team. And that may sound like a clichéd answer, but if you are around this group and how we interact together, you would see the honesty in that answer.

Chris Gandy 44:01

Awesome, Joel.

Joel Tabin 44:04

I mean, I mean, just this past year, this was really wonderful. It just happened just this past year, I was selected among all the regionals as the regional of the year for Midland. And I had been close a few times. And you've been to a number of Final Fours, I guess. But finally, you know, won the award.

And, you know, if you know Bobby and you know Midlands regional system, it's a wonderful system and to be thought of so highly amongst my peers was really just an amazing achievement, really, really a highlight for my career.

Bobby Johnson 44:43

In 2024, Chris, it wasn't even close. Joel. If you look at what he did last year for many, many people it was clear Joel.

Chris Gandy 44:54

Joel was the UK. Joel was the UConn Huskies was yeah. You know he was dominant I love it.

Chris Gandy 45:09

Thanks to the both of you, number one for partnering with NAIFA and continuously trusting the industry and pouring back into the industry. You know, Kathleen and I wouldn't be able to do what we do without people like yourselves. So thank you so much for the time, energy and effort you put into the industry. NAIFA nation is listening or is there anything specifically you would like to share with NAIFA Nation? Either one of you?

Bobby Johnson 45:33

Yeah, I would just Say that number one, I'm proud to be back associated with NAIFA. It's a we slide right. You get things come up and things get pushed in the background. And NAIFA has certainly been pushed to the forefront. And I look forward to contributing in any way that I can on Midland's behalf.

Chris Gandy & Kathleen Owings 45:53

Thank you.

Joel Tabin 45:55

I would say join NAIFA. Get involved with NAIFA. You know, I've often I often say to my advisors, is there a lawyer who's not a member of the American Bar Association? Is there a doctor who's not a member of the American Medical Association? Make NAIFA your association.

Get involved. The stronger we are, the more we're going to get out of it, the more the industry will get out of it. You know, it's a great relationship and it's one that, that, that that'll feed. That'll, that'll create benefits for you and for our industry for the rest of your life. It's just wonderful.

Chris Gandy 46:29

Thank you so much, Joel. Thank you. Bobby. Kathleen, our wonderful co-host. Is there anything you want to say to NAIFA, before we close?

Kathleen Owings 46:38

You know, I would say reach out to wonderful partners like Midland. I mean, they are truly there to help all of us. If you feel like you might have holes or gaps in your practice as Bobby. Bobby, would you say there's 24 regional directors there at Midland?

So find your Joel. It may not be Joel, but if you need that assistance, reach out to them. I know the gentleman I work with in my region has been wonderful, but I don't know everything and I always lean heavily, whether it be my asset side or my protection side, with my regionals, to get those answers because I am not an expert. So please reach out to those individuals for help.

Chris Gandy 47:21

Thank you Kathleen. It's so wonderful seeing you. I look forward to building this wonderful message through our podcast and this platform. You know, we're fortunate enough to continue to have it. And thanks all of you for tuning in to Advisor Today podcast, where we give you the voice of the advisors and the thought leaders in our industry, and we look forward to seeing you at Congressional conference.

We'll see you on the Hill. We have some wonderful things planned there, and we'll see you next week at the same time, same place. And this is where we come together for the collective group of us all. And let's leave the world a little better than we found it. Thanks, all.

Kathleen Owings 48:00

Thanks, Joel and Bobby. Thanks, Chris.

Chris Gandy 48:03

Thank you guys. We'll see you later. Thanks for being here.

Outro 48:09

Thanks for joining us for NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series. Make sure to subscribe to get future episodes. And if you're interested in coming on the show, let us know.