The Difficult Reality of the Financial Services Industry With Joe Jordan

Joe Jordan

Joe Jordan is an inspirational speaker and behavioral finance expert. In 2013, he released his award-winning book Living a Life of Significance, which has sold 90,000-plus copies in five languages. Additionally, Joe is a Founder of the Insured Retirement Institute and was featured on the cover of Life Insurance Selling Magazine. He was also honored by Irish America magazine as one of the “Top 50 Irish Americans on Wall Street.” Before becoming an international speaker, Joe worked in insurance and retired from his role as Senior Vice President at MetLife.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

Joe Jordan shares how he got started in the insurance industry
Why is longevity a woman’s issue?
The advice Joe would impart to himself if he were just starting in the industry — and the initiatives he’s implemented for connecting with others
How has the financial services industry evolved?
The inspiration for Joe’s book and what he hopes people take away from its content
The challenges of providing sufficient housing as life expectancy increases
Joe shares his involvement with NAIFA and his advice to retiring members

In this episode…

One of the issues the United States faces today is longevity. More people are living beyond 80 due to better healthcare and healthier lifestyles. Though living beyond our golden age is considered a blessing, old age is a curse for some — especially elderly women. How can we rectify this issue?

95% of financial services industry professionals are male, and the products offered by insurance companies reflect this statistic. Coincidentally, 80% of women die single — with the vast majority outliving their husbands. Financial expert Joe Jordan recommends updating insurance products and recruiting women to pursue a career in the industry. Integrating more women into the field is an effective strategy to help women receive the financial support they need.

On this episode of Advisor Today, Chris Gandy and Suzanne Carawan sit down with Joe Jordan to discuss the evolution of financial services and products. Joe talks about the genesis behind his book, why longevity is a woman’s issue, and the challenges of providing housing for the elderly.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by the National Association of Insurance and Financial Advisors, or NAIFA, the #1 association for producers in financial services.

At NAIFA, we enhance professional skills, promote ethical conduct, and advocate for legislative and regulatory environments.

By joining NAIFA, you gain access to a partnership that elevates your performance while providing greater purpose to your professional work. NAIFA members are happier, make more money, and stay in the business longer.

Get in touch with NAIFA and learn more about how to join NAIFA by visiting NAIFA.org.

Episode Transcript:

Intro 0:02

Welcome to NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series, where we focus on how financial advisors work, live and give to their local communities and our greater financial services industry. Now, let's get started with the show.

Chris Gandy 0:20

Hi, everyone, this is Chris Gandy, one of your co-hosts for Advisor Today's Podcast with our wonderful co-host, Suzanne Carawan. Hi, Suzanne, how are you? Hey, Chris,

Suzanne Carawan 0:29

Hey, Chris! Good to see you.

Chris Gandy 0:30

Welcome today to our bow tie edition. We have the the one of the greats, Mr. Joe Jordan here. We'll get to him in a second. But I look forward to interviewing him and having a really good time as we talk about why Joe is unique in his own way. So Suzanne, here to share our sponsor for today's podcast.

Suzanne Carawan 0:56

Yeah, today, we're sponsored by Columbus Life. And so if you're a NAIFA's member, you'll receive your print edition of the advisor day magazine, roughly about mid July, and on the back cover, you're gonna see one of Columbus life's new products, check that out and look for your inbox as well to say in addition with that, but we think Columbus, like with their sponsorship and their friendship.

Chris Gandy 1:17

Thank you, Suzanne. So with no further ado, those who don't know, this young man, but I'll just say that I met him and I was like, wow, that actually looks pretty cool wearing wearing a bow tie. And he must be pretty, pretty unique. So Mr. Joe Jordan, welcome to the advisor day podcast. So happy to be so happy you're here.

Joe Jordan 1:42

Well, thank you, Chris. I'm really, really happy to be with you today.

Chris Gandy 1:48

So with that being said, you know, let's, let's jump right in. I'm sure that, you know, this probably, if not, might be the most watched podcast, you know, Joe, you'll have to be beat mine. I think mine so far has been, you know, done really well. So they're looking for some amazing nuggets, so they can watch it over and over again. Okay. Okay. So So Joe, let's let's start with with, let's rewind the tape. You know, you've you've, I've seen you on magazines, I've seen you and you know, speaking on stage, you know, you didn't start there. So tell us a little bit about how you started in the insurance and financial services business? Well, I'll

Joe Jordan 2:28

tell you, you know, my background was I, my mother was widowed when I was very young. I was six months old when my father died. And actually, he was an advisor to Harry Truman, you know, and so we used to have a different lifestyle, and that ball got changed. So, I never reflected on that, or what have you just went through normal stuff. And you know, that I did that. So I wound up in the life insurance business, not because of my personal background, but I was a Catholic, Big Brother, I wanted to do that because I grew up without a father. And I think that's important. And one of the guys on the board of the Catholic Big Brothers was the guy named Tom Costello, who played linebacker for the Giants, which was my other religion. So he told me, I should, you know, join home life. And so I did what New York giant told me to do. So I had no predisposition or passion or saying, you know, someday I'll get into this thing. And, and then I got into it. And of course, it was this the middle 70s. And then then I became a child of the 80s. I left home life because I went to Paine Webber, which was a wire house on Wall Street, stock brokerage firm and, and I had insurance background. So I wasn't the greatest insurance guy in the world. But at Paine, Webber, I was, you know, so but I had to get people to change behavior to sell insurance instead of just stocks and bonds. And this is the early 80s, man, so the culture was completely different. And so I had that. And then, having had that background, I went to MetLife. And I ran their annuity business, because I had that background. And the benefit I had was MetLife kept importing people from, you know, Merrill Lynch, or places like that, but didn't understand the life insurance culture and having been at life agent, knowing that insurance people back then were brought up to be income gatherers, they weren't asset gatherers, and asked people for $100,000, you know, they ask them for, you know, $500 a month or something like that. So I understood that and so I had to change their behavior. So, so that's how I got into business and then I bit into the bullet of, you know, how much money I can make. So I was on the dark side, you know, that's what it was. It was kind of impersonal and very bunch of product talk, which there's nothing wrong with products, but don't get me wrong. So I think what you want to get me towards is how did I get to where I am now? And slowly but surely I began to take a look at financial services. And I found it to be good because you know what I was challenged, I had, I had to learn about financial planning, because I had introduced it at MetLife. And I know anything about it. And then as I began to look at it, all of this stuff that we have in financial services, all this technical gobbledygook that doesn't really connect with people, and the whole thing of the business is the relationships you create, and whether or not you become trustworthy or not. And, and then I began to look at the idea which i thought i We had a lot of it in the 70s, when I started, it's almost non existent now is why we do what we do. And then all of a sudden, it was a reflection in terms of my life, my my lifestyle growing up without a father and and a father, who cashed in $100,000, New York Life policy, six months before about six months before he was killed in a car accident. So I began to realize this, you know, what $100,000 was in 1952? All right, I mean, you could buy a kick ass house for $1,000. Right? Our lives would have been radically different. I mean, that was the transformation that happened. Because what happened is I never got when I spoke at MDRT, in 2004, was on the main platform made me reflect on it. And I was going through a completely different phase I was, I was very animated. I was angry at my father, it was the first time 54 years of age, that's how long it took me to figure it out. And, and, and so, to me, I'll just say this, I think God put me in that position, because I didn't have any predisposition towards that before. And then I began to realize when I thought about what my family went through my mother and two sisters working, making certain I could get a car because I wanted to play his baseball and catches equip, everything we did was a struggle, and all this other stuff like that. So that's when I began to transformation to understand that what we really do is have a major impact on people's lives. And so that's why that was the genesis behind Living a Significant Life, because I don't think we talked about it, it's really the impact that we have on others. And I think, to some extent, our culture has been so self oriented, that I wanted to bring out that aspect of it. And I think that if you have I think human beings are built to help others. And I think that's the true satisfaction. That's what people really get, a lot of people become very wealthy and a lot of money, but they're not very happy. And so that, that that was the thing that came to me. So that that's kind of a shorthand of how I got into the business, how I transformed in the business and what my message is, and, and so right now, what I like to talk about is not just the facts and the numbers, it's not a story in numbers, it's the number of stories, and trying to bring that into place, so that we communicate better with people and, and save lives. And, you know, I did the research and found out everyone dies, you know, and that includes us. So, you know, what better impact would you have if there are people out there who, who, who have really benefited as a result of what you do, but not only in death, but also in terms of now we have this other problem of living too long. So used to be just die too soon. Now it's living too long. And a lot of our products, you might run out of money, but you'll never run out of income. So think about that. And that's a that's a radical change. So I do think that right now in our business, we deal with the major issue the planet faces, I don't think it's global warming. I think it's the aging population of the world. More importantly, the narrowing of the working age population trying to support all of these people who live before. So it's like what Nick Murray says it's yo, yo, you're on your own. So that's, that's what we helped to do. And so that's, that's, that's, that's kind of my summary.

Suzanne Carawan 8:58

So I was gonna, I was gonna say so I did see you speak recently in in Chicagoland when we were kind of on the speaker circuit together there, Joe. And, you know, you spoke specifically about the living too long and how this is a primarily a woman's issue. So did did that. Also connect them with your mother and sisters? Like did you have that real kind of impact? Is that part of what's really fueling that as well? So yeah, I

Joe Jordan 9:23

mean, I grew up in a maternal household. So I had a different perspective in terms of things that went on. So I was more sensitive to women's issues, because I saw, I mean, my mother went from going to the White House for tea to become a secretary and the bartender is local in the Bronx. And I watched the way women got treated and what have you, and so, so that was it. So, you know, I'll just tell you this 80% of men die married and 80% of women die single. So, you know, life insurance is a woman's issue. And then on top of that, you know, I always ask this question, and most people get it wrong. We got to what country has the most As people over age 100, everyone thinks is Japan Well, per capita, Japan does bus the United States by a mile. For every guy over age 100, that's five women. So longevity is a woman who should. So when you look, take into consideration the fact that, that, that that right now, people living too long, not too long, but living longer is the fact that they need to have some form of guarantees. And that's, that's the other end of life insurance, right as annuities, you know, the people who die pay for the people who live in and excuse me, the people who live pay for the people who die in life insurance and the people who die pay for the people who live in an annuity. So giving people guaranteed lifetime income is important. And it's specifically I think, a woman's issue.

Chris Gandy 10:49

So So Joe, let's, let's dig into that a little bit. So you mentioned it's a woman's issue. So if we think about the people coming into our business, right, let's shift gears, we think about the people coming into our businesses that mean that, that insurance companies, the recruiters should start looking at how to include more women into the workforce, as it deals with me, if you look at the financial services industry, is it 95%? Male? Right, okay. So does that mean that, from your perspective, that that would be a way of, of growing? You know, if I'm a company, is that a way that I look at growing through through women's initiatives and diverse initiatives? Is that what you're? Can you comment on that a little bit? Yeah.

Joe Jordan 11:45

But my point is, it solves a business issue. And it goes beyond just all of the things that we like to say is, you know, this equity is all I know, it sounds a business issue, because I think where the business is going, it's crawling towards the idea. Because before he could dazzle people with numbers, now everyone has a computer and all this other stuff and access to information that they never had before. Okay, so now, it's really the important part of creating the relationships, and women do that instinctively, on top of which they're the ones most vulnerable to the product types of that we sell being alone. You know, and then, you know, having having an income. So yes, I do think men can get sensitized to it, but I do think women do that instinctively. And I think we just have to have more representation. And again, that comes from growing up and observing the stuff my mother went through from, you know, from up here, you know, to down there and, and what she had to do so, yes, I do think that beyond just the platitudes of, it's socially acceptable, you know, to be diverse, this really solves the business issue, and you have to begin to recognize that men are different from women, you know, they don't fake it till they make it, they really want to know it. You know, there's a lot of things that have to go on. And you can't do a 7am meeting when someone has to take a kid to school. So it's not it's not all those things. So I do think that's, that's an important initiative we need to do.

Chris Gandy 13:10

So, so let's, let's talk about kind of what's going on in your world. Would you say that, you know, if I was having this conversation with you, 20 years ago? What kind of advice would you give your yourself 20 years ago? You were starting in the business at that time, by the way, Joe, could you share with everyone? How long have you been in the life insurance game or financial services game at some level?

Joe Jordan 13:39

Well, it's, it's 50 years now. So that's a long time started and started in 1974. So it's, it's been a while so so I've seen it all. And, you know, it used to be we had whole life and uncompetitive term, you know, and that was, you know, that was it. And you had to be criminally insane to run a mutual company out of business. You know, it was, you know, pretty simple. And then I watched all the complexities as it came together, you know, what really started Wall Street started getting into our business. And so that's why I made the shift the PaineWebber. And, and but one of the things I will tell you, it had nothing to do with client centricity. It had nothing to do with taking care of clients, it was just diversifying revenue stream, so it was always business. And, and so, you know, I watched that happen. And so now, I think we're getting to the point in terms of I think our business is less client centric than most of the businesses that were out there, and that's why we paid a price for it. So that's, that's, you know, that that's what I believe. And I think this next phase that we're going towards is the idea that We have to get to the point where, and I'll talk more about this a little bit later. That one of the things of aging is, we used to think if we took care of someone financially, it was done. Well, all the products we sell, as you know, can be commoditized, right? So, uh, I think in the future, and one of the think tanks came out with this, I can't remember the name of it said that. In 10 years, people in our business will be acting more like life coaches, you know, life financial coaches, what are you going to do the fact that you're living longer, you know, and I getting older? So I thought, well, I'm jumping ahead of myself, but you asked the question, what would I have said to myself 20 years ago, I wish I had been more enlightened earlier in my career than I was. And and, you know, back then there was more of this? Well, it's funny, because in the, in the olden days, when I started, the products weren't all that good. But the culture was kind of right, dealing with why maybe covering up for some of the product issues that are there. Now, the products are really great. And we're just talking numbers to people. So So I do think that, you know, that's, that's what I tried to bring to the table.

So, so, Joe, you mentioned that. So tell us a little bit about what you have going on. Now. I mean, 50 years in, you know, some people may say, Hey, Joe, is, it's time to retire, right? You're saying no, I'm going, I'm going hard. I'm going 100%. Share with us, what do you have going now, with your website, you're going around, you're talking to companies, tell us share, share with share a little bit on your initiatives, today, and how people can connect with you?

Well, you know, once again, you know, I backed into the life insurance business unconsciously, and it'd be close to something else. And then look at me now I'm 71. And I'm running like, I'm 22 years old. Hi, I was just in Thailand, and then went to Jamaica, you know, but I live for it. But I never thought of the idea. Because we remember one of the one of the problems of this aging population is you know, people retire. And, and then they think it's going to be this one great thing of playing golf or whatever it is. And even if you have enough money, you need meaning and purpose. And so again, I backed into it, I didn't, I didn't consciously go out to do this. I mean, one of the one of the astronauts said, if you think going to the moon is hard, try staying home. And you know, that, that, that that's an issue, you need meaning and purpose. So I again, I just backed into it, that's the evolution that I've seen, where I think the business is going towards, we have to be able to counsel people, that they have to be able to make a plan to do something. Because what was happened is especially exacerbated by the by the pandemic, is isolation, and isolation kills. It's, it's, they've done a study and they said, people who have a severe sense of isolation, and this can be you can be married and have grandchildren and still be isolated. Because you, you're disconnected from what you used to do, you know, used to be in who's Oh, now no one knows who the hell you are, you know, and that's, that's a tough adjustment to be able to, you know, to make. So, I think that excuse me. So, I think with me, I just, you know, kept doing it, because what else am I going to do, and I now get some good, you know, great fulfillment because I wake up I got stuff to do, and I got a dial and smile, like you and I get rejected and all this other stuff, and I gotta think crap up and what have you, but it keeps me occupied and keeps me Golan. And, and, and that, that, I think is the new future. That's the big risk we faced. Because if, if, if you have this, people have to be responsible for themselves, because a lot of the the governmental type, you know, safety nets, just just just can't afford it. And, you know, just to get some proof on it, if you looked at it, you know, look what's going on now in the I don't know if you saw this, but in the UK, the their, their, their medical thing, you know, it's all government run is really in crisis now. And it's only going to get worse. Yeah, France was went nuts going from 62 to 64. I mean, riots in the streets, you know, and, and so I think those are, those are issues that are coming up that we help to solve and, and that's why I think it's important what we do, and I'll just throw this other ad and effort for NAIFA. I always love NAIFA's because of the fact that it preserved my livelihood. Now with a livelihood without us What the hell are people going to do? I mean, you saw some of the nutty things. They came out of the state of Washington, that long term care thing was a nightmare. The premiums were ridiculous the benefits were in if you moved out of the state. So the politicians are well meaning but they don't know how to do this. This is this is this is the significant issue that we're facing. And so I think beyond just saving your livelihood, it's also the idea that we do a lot of good out there and I want to make sure I get that point across.

Chris Gandy 20:25

You know, Joe, people can identify you use you do stand out in the crowd. Now because of the debonair, you know, go t you know, but, but where did the bow tie come from, you know, I heard that you match and mirror your, your, who you're talking to, so, I decided to put a bow tie on the day, where they see that otter to interview

Suzanne Carawan 20:49

and the shoes, shoes.

Joe Jordan 20:52

I wear the the two tone shoes. I remember I guess I got selected to speak at MDRT This was 2004. And so that's when I got started with it. So my wife's going don't wear those shoes. I said Geraldine holder enough pression please don't put this on me. I know what I'm doing. So you know, I got up and I spoke and then a woman woman came on after a Patrice Berry was her name. And she goes the man with a beautiful shoe. So so what happened was, I'll just tell you this guy's go. Yeah, it was a guy he did. He gave his great speech. I don't I forgot his name. It's the guy with the bowtie the shoes, you know. So. So that turned into a moniker and it's kind of a you know, differentiator is it's like Tom Hagler wears orange shirts all the time. So that's, that's that's kind of his thing. So

Suzanne Carawan 21:38

I think your salmon I think it's specifically goes with the salmon pink. Yeah. But yeah, personal brand pieces. Yeah, yeah. So did you? Did you get it back to your wife where you're like, Hey, I was right. Say it worked forever after?

Joe Jordan 21:52

Oh, no, I've never I've never done that. But it was just under so much pressure. And then I have to hear you know, you don't look right.

Chris Gandy 22:00

Yeah, so so so so a unique value proposition, right? Remember You By not what they see or what they hear, but the combination of all those things that they remember. But I think Joe, you have a fantastic message. One is that, you know, I've heard numerous speakers in our industry. You know, when you're brand new, you know, you look at you say Okay, where did the Where did the Where did the Where did the one of the one of the godfathers hang out? Right? What do they hang on? He talked to those guys. And I remember the one of the first times I made MDRT, I remember standing in line to come talk to you and say, Hey, listen, I appreciate everything you said, I'm gonna take it and I'm gonna run with it. I remember you saying something like, I think you're gonna stand out in a crowd, even though I already stand out in a crowd, because I'm super tall. Stand that crowd very observant of you. Right. But, but I remember that, right. And, to this day, I remember that that was in Oh, my goodness. 2000 like deer 2000 2001. I was 30. So no, I've done MDRT numerous times since and for the table, top of the table, all that fun stuff. And and you're right there is I believe that as an advisor, you transition into that idea of being a a coach, to people because the products agnostic to each company, they're unique in their own way. No one has the market cornered on ideas, right. But but your approach to the public, because the public is evolving so fast, right? They're evolving so fast that that it makes you want to and have to upgrade your skill. Right? Make you make it so that you're more marketable. We have to as advisors, so you in the business, but can you talk a little bit about you mentioned this longevity being a women's issue? Is there do you see that that, that the products specifically are geared towards the way in which women buy these products? Or are the insurance companies still kind of in the dark with, we're going to make these products this way? And at the end of the day, that the communication and even the marketing aren't to that specific niche space? Well,

Joe Jordan 24:27

I don't know, I I'm not smart enough to figure out how I would alter the products, you know, there. I think the messaging is something that needs to, you know, needs to be done. I know the biggest issue and I don't know to what extent it exists now but you know, it used to be man on man right? You know, I'm going to talk to the man you know, and so that I forget the statistics, but it's huge, right? The the number of women who become single Dave, what percentage of them changed their financial advisor because I think I think the some extent we've been getting that nose up. And mostly, it's been been somewhat successful because it impacts the wallet, you know what I mean, you lose clients as a result of that. So I think there's been a lot of sensitivity towards that. I also think there's a lot more women in the business than had been, you know, I always admire, you know, Roble, another day, for example, down in Louisiana, and be one of the women that I know, I can't imagine showing up at MDRT is 15,000 guys there, and the six women, you know, what that must have been like. And so I think we're moving in the right direction. And I think women will take more senior roles, and they would know better than I would, in terms of how to, you know, best appeal, best appeal to women. But again, they were always in the backdrop, but, you know, since they're alive, and they're, they're managing the money, they're gonna go to somebody else. And so I think that's, I think that's, that's been, I don't know, to what extent it's been successful, but I think that's there.

Chris Gandy 26:03

So, so generally, let's talk about the evolution of the industry. So, you know, the, the banks or any insurance business, or the slower the wire houses, right, the the insurance companies are in the investment business? You know, it's kind of muddled up, right? And so, you've seen that evolve? Where do you see this going? Because if we're, we're on fast forward, at this point, where we're going is lightyears away, do you see that there will be a time where we as financial advisors become obsolete?

Joe Jordan 26:41

I don't see that. No, I really don't, I really don't. And that's because we have to adapt the human side of what we do. And I was there. I mean, in 1974, as I said, I had whole life and uncompetitive term. And then, you know, wound up at PaineWebber, and this was a place that, you know, was selling stocks and bonds was selling greed and asset gathering and insurance, people fear and income gathering, you know, but they were coming together. And again, as I said, Before, it wasn't for any purpose of taking care of clients, it was just, you know, revenue. Diversity, you know, and I don't think everyone always thought like, and I was going through the stages that are as a PaineWebber, I had to make that change. And then everyone said that computers are coming out, and everyone's going to buy this stuff, you know, online, just doesn't happen. There's, there's a whole emotional equation, that's, that's lost, I think that that gets lost in our business. The other part of the future is the life insurance culture was really at risk. You know, before, if that's the only thing you could sell you, you had the culture. Now, it's just so much cooler and easier to be dealing with the finances and what have you. And, and, and, and so my concern is that, that, and hopefully, as people begin to understand that the only thing that really works is something that's financial in nature that impacts your revenues. So if you lose on a lot of women, because you never incorporated them, you're going to learn from that lesson. And, and, you know, so so you'll learn from that. And I do think that the people who are going to be acting more like coaches, and that's highlighted and in that book from Gary Sirak, because he backed into it, too, he didn't, he didn't consciously come to this recognition, which is the idea of creating those relationships by asking people questions about what they're going to do in retirement, for example, creating a tighter relationship. And then it isn't a question of saying, What do you charge for this? How much are your fees, you know, all that other stuff, it becomes a critical issue, because I saw the thing. It used to be packaged sales, so I don't do a package sale, then I started the fee based financial planning. And that's where you were asking questions. But the fee based planning was, it was so technical in nature, the questions that you left, you know, what, what are your plans? You know, what? The problem is not the problem. People who know how to think about the problem, you've got to humanize more in terms of, of finding out what people want to do and what plans they they've put together. And so, you know, people say what's your plan? What are you talking about a plan and then live in day to day, you know, so, so that's where I think there's two books. One is the Gary Sirak book. The other one is Mitch Anthony. Okay. He has a book out. I don't have it in front of me. Sorry. Oh, maybe I can find it. I'll look for it in a second here. He talks about the the technical way of changing of the types of questions to ask. It's always great when some visionary gets up and says your whole business is changing you better with that, but They don't give you a they don't give you a way to do that. And Mitch Anthony, I think has been a bit of a leader in that. So I always like a lot of his books. So I would say Mitch Anthony and Gary Sirak two books you should get.

Chris Gandy 26:51

I have one question for you. What about your book? So you wrote a book called A Life of Significance? Yes. Yes, that's

Joe Jordan 30:15

right. Yes. Okay.

Chris Gandy 30:17

So Looking dapper on the cover. Can you share with us, so if you don't have it, or you have not read it, go out and get it. And we still get it on Amazon.

Joe Jordan 30:33

You can't get it on Amazon, you have to go through my my website, which is just JosephJordan.com. go surfing. They give me $2.

Chris Gandy 30:43

So let's go make sure you get the book. So give me a highlight what, what made you say I'm going to write a book, like, and here's what I want people to get in with that part B is, what do you want people to get out of the book? And when was the next book coming out?

Joe Jordan 31:02

Okay. Well, the next book, the first one almost killed me. So I don't know yet. But, but but but what I wanted, I wanted to put in a personal story, you know, again, all of this stuff was technical in nature and more math oriented. And I wanted to just tell my story, and, and, you know, it was very dramatic as the other thing that happened during the 80s was a lot of investment people were getting in the insurance business. And, and what happened was interest rates were 14 15%. So unlike New York Life and MetLife, that had these huge bond portfolios underwater, they could charge give any rate they wanted, but they understood investments, they didn't understand liabilities. And so that's where we had some, you know, disruptions, you know, Baldwin United went out and executive life out of be taken over. And so that was a pretty traumatic, you know, you know, situation that happened. So, I kind of lived through that. And so, you know, that's something that, that that, that I wanted, I wanted to get through a story. I also wanted to say how the business changed, which you asked me before, started out with just those two products, the company, the products came together, I think there's an invisible hand of people are really driving this, I don't I don't think the regulator's are driving it, people want to talk to one person, they don't want to talk to seven. And, and they want to have all of this stuff taken care of. And so I think that was the driving force behind it. I wanted to get that out. And then I wanted to tell my story, you know, the fact that I was totally oblivious to all of this stuff. You know, I was six months old, my father died. So I just had to make do. And then it wasn't, it was the catharsis at 54 years of age that I found a stage of MDRT, it came to, you know, what if my father, where's the New York Life agent, who told my father do not cancel this thing, right? Again, 100,000 bucks would have made our lives radically different. You know, I have two sisters who never went to college because my mother decided, the girls had to go to work to make sure the boys went to college. And let me tell you something, I'm 71. And I'm the baby. And that's as alive today, as it was back then. These are real pressing issues that people face. And so I wanted to get that humanity out. And then I just had a lot number of other stories from other people in the business and the impact that they had. And it's, it's, and we just don't talk enough about it. So I think that's the thing that I get driven to when maybe they think, oh, you know, isn't that nice? He tells my stories, but but that's the thing that doesn't? How the hell did people put up with you know, calling on the phone and getting rejected and what have you, there's got to be something other than just, you know, how much money you make? No, I'm not I was in the business so I know it. I'm not being story I'd but I do think there has to be some element that we constantly have to reinforce the idea that we're a force for good that we are I think that dealing with the major issue the planet faces from it used to be people die too soon, now it's lived too long. And, and I don't I don't see it happening with just computers popping up and making stuff happen. And it's also a great way to make a living. And I've also known known some other organizations that are beginning to pop up that are that are doing, you know, great work. And, and I do think we have to get more diverse we have to you know, not just gender but also you know, raised the, the other benefit of all of these different cultures that are in our that are in our the United States now. They have to be served and it's very underserved. There's Vince Vitiello, he's wrote he's written a great book, he says, you know, diversity means more bucks. And you just can't believe some of the some of the things that are out there and these are great people they have great, great value. His family values, and they need to be taken care of. So I would say women, and then also the idea of a lot of the diverse cultures that we have in our country right

Chris Gandy 35:08

now. Suzanne, you look like you have a question. There's a question on the phone, my tip of my tongue.

Suzanne Carawan 35:18

You know, I was just gonna ask you to kind of give also your view on, you know, we're in this post COVID world now. And certainly COVID, you know, you're talking about the greatest challenge we have is aging. And we have that on one hand, and then we have the housing, right? Where are we going to put people like, what's that going to look like? You know, how to how does that look, I think all of it is changing, right. And so the point I was just going to ask your opinion on is that the innovation I think we're going to see in the next 10 to 20 years around aging, right. And also, we let's face facts, I think as Americans, we're going to have to change our cultural norms to to, to a certain extent about aging, and also death and end of life, which I think the life insurance life agents have come to grips with that, you know, long ago, and they understand kind of the the purpose of this product and kind of that noble piece of it. But I was gonna ask your opinion on how do we take that? And what do you see happening there with that type of an aging population with you know, that's the United States has never seen that. We've walked around with baby boomers for right decades now. And then the previous generations were very small, and then war made them even smaller. So what is your take on that show?

Joe Jordan 36:31

Well, I think product development has been very helpful. I mean, we now have living values, you know, wish we didn't have before you bought life insurance, and you, you know, you hope you die when it's enforced, you know, now, there are tremendous stories about people using the proceeds for living values in terms of being able to pay for things that aren't covered. I mean, I have a I have, I have a link that people can get, and you can do it on my website, I just don't have it in front of me right now. Where I'll send you two stories a month for six months free. And what I'm trying to do is to reorient people towards that one of the stories is a young woman who is a parent, and lives with the parents, but she's the sole support. And she got she got beaten up accosted and seriously injured. But she was able to advance $400,000 from a life insurance policy to pay all of our medical expenses and kept the family intact. That wouldn't have happened 20 years ago, you know, so, so I think the products have really been addressing the fact that people need more and, and also, that's a young woman, there's, there's, there's long term care incidents that could happen, you know, some people just can't afford long term care, but something's better than nothing. So I think the product lines have really have really advanced in terms of the benefits, you know, that people have the ability to get, and then you get into all of the other things that are there. And you have to talk to people about preparation, you know, my mother was in a hospital bed in my apartment, you know, for a while and I'm married to a saint, she didn't mind. But you know, what happens is, you can tear families apart when you have this, you know, uneven caregiving being provided by the dutiful daughter, I'm making it up, you know, what I mean? The duty versus the three other siblings and all of this other stuff. So this is really important stuff, which is now completely you're absolutely right. We haven't experienced this before. Now, people live now, they might live a long time, but they may not be healthy, and they may be broke. And you look at China for crying out loud, one kid, and then how many crap, and they're being obligated by law. And this all started from a standpoint of, you know, the one child policy. It's, it's really something that that's, that's creeping up on us. And I think we deal with it directly. And I think we should just be be talking more about it. So I think from a product perspective, I think we've we've improved pretty dramatically.

Suzanne Carawan 39:03

When you add content, we still need to keep having that conversation.

Joe Jordan 39:05

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And then, you know, also the, the facilities that would be available, you know, for people and, and, and, and how that operates. So, yeah, I mean, that's why I think there has to be more presence of mine. I don't know about global warming, maybe it'll start getting cooler. But I know for sure what's happening with population is that's, that's that, you know that. That's going to be there.

Chris Gandy 39:37

You look at last couple of questions for you. So, so where are you going to be you know, where in the world is Joe Jordan? I mean, you're all over the place. You're in Taiwan. I mean, you're international. If someone can catch a glimpse of you, where are the next kind of two, three places, you'll be on some sort of national stage where people can I hear speak to you and shake your hand, where were you going next?

Joe Jordan 40:04

Well, I, you know, I'm doing more with NAIFA. You know, I wasn't I wasn't doing that much with NAIFA. But I gotta tell you something, and I know you guys are behind this thing. But I, I was very impressed when robola. And either they got the got the award. And she invited me. And that's when I showed us showed up, and I saw everything that was going on here. So I am trying to do individual statewide, I didn't want to do one big NAIFA's meeting, I wanted to see if I could get out and be visible and, and try to get more people involved, you know, for local knife organizations, but I'm, I'm I'm going to be in for exotic places, I'm going to be in looks like Portugal, and it looks like I'll be in the in Poland. At will the beauty of it is is kind of the discussion points I have, it doesn't matter where you're from, it's all the same. Everyone's got parents, everyone's got children. It's a very, you know, human, human thing. So that's, that's really what I'm trying to do is to press in the importance of what we do. And if you really want to do something that's worthwhile, I think the next evolution of the business, I think for terminals, they're already you know, they're like a one stop shop. You know, you show up, I'm doing a gig, I do gigs for Vita, Columbus and what have you. And they have all of these other programs, which are ideally suited for the meaning and purpose type things, you know, to get all the people involved. There's another group called GBU, which what they do is they match up to a certain dollar amount of contribution that you'd make towards, you know, certain organizations. So it makes the person feel vital, and it's there. I think, to some extent, that's so if I'm looking at product development beyond just the products themselves, is that stuff? Is the idea of what is it we can do? Or who could we make a partnership with, so that people feel important and vital beyond just knowing if they die, their family will get x or, you know, they've got an income coming in? So I think I think those are the things I think Eternals are there. I just wish they paternal said more confidence in the great value proposition they have, because I don't think sometimes they get it. So I think a fraternal type of approach other benefits, other than just, you know, the life insurance and the investments would be cool.

Suzanne Carawan 42:32

Well, and how about this? I mean, I hadn't thought to ask you this. But since you bring that up, because I love the fact that you're you're saying do something that's making the person feel vital. What do you say? So in in NAIFA nation, right, we have a lot of retired members, we have a lot of members who are retiring, what would you say to them,

Joe Jordan 42:52

I would say that they should stay active and NAIFA they, you know, they shouldn't be there, they should be able to talk to the younger people do that, because I'll tell you what, you know, you're gonna get, most people will get bored out of their gourd, you know, and you have a lot to contribute. And, you know, what it is to is that sometimes when people feel that way, they, they, they don't understand the importance of, of their experience and what they can give to someone. And so because they know it, everyone knows that that's not true. That's not true. And so show up to a NAIFA's meeting, for crying out loud, get there, you know, see some people and what have you stay vital, you know, and, and I think that's an invaluable resource to have. And maybe the local NAIFA's meetings should put people up on the stage or, you know, have a panel of people and have them talk about the stories, and not just war stories, but I mean, you know, that type of stuff, so I didn't even think of it. So you just brought it up. I think that's an invaluable resource that NAIFA's has, and

Suzanne Carawan 43:53

a lot of the people you're right, they self select out saying, Oh, no one wants to listen to me. And it's like, no, you couldn't be further from the truth

Joe Jordan 44:00

is the insecurity of you know, I'm, well that's that's part of, you know, the idea of retirement is gone play golf. Well, then you start you start feeling insecure about No, you know, no, they don't even know what they know. Right? You know what I mean? So I that's it that's a great idea. So

Suzanne Carawan 44:22

Well, Chris, it's time

Chris Gandy 44:24

wow. Time flies when you're having fun. Yeah. Yeah. Suzanne, do you have anything before we go to jail for the lightning round Joe, we do have a lightning round. And round is always interesting because the rule of thumb is very simple, is whatever comes to mind. First, you have to get prepared. Like I see you getting prepared over there like he's okay, what are you gonna hit me with right? There's no basketballs. There's no surprises I can ask you about politics. I'm not gonna ask you about you know, But where you were when you were 17 years old, you know, was that you? I'm not gonna ask you those things, right? So I'm just going to ask you things to give are, you know, people know, of you people don't know you? Right. And I think one of the things this podcast does for people is it brings the human element to part of what I think is missing in our industry, because they may not be able to connect with the Joe Jordan. They may not have made MDRT but something you said today might inspire them to do so. Right. And so, we asked this lightning round for the for that purpose. So Suzanne, do you have anything before we go to the I wish I had a lightning some shorter.

Suzanne Carawan 45:45

We still are investigating that sound effect. Just another shout out to thank you Columbus Life for sponsorship and, and then we'll Yeah, let's do it.

Chris Gandy 45:54

They just do it. So we haven't gotten to get away.

Suzanne Carawan 45:57

This Joe,

Joe Jordan 45:58

by the way, John Bultema, who is the who is the president of Columbus Life, I want to give him a shout out I saw him on stage, they actually sponsored me and he's, he comes from a culture that really understands what the business is about. So thank you. Thank you for sponsoring this again to John. Awesome.

Suzanne Carawan 46:22

I was just gonna say, Joe, maybe people don't know Joe is a prolific rugby player. So I've no doubt he can knock this thing out of the no problem. Okay, handle anything coming his way. Something a little different. So test and test from Chris.

Chris Gandy 46:36

Alright, so Joe will start off pretty easily. So first thing I want to ask is you live in New York? Yes. Yes, I do. Yeah. So I'm going to ask the Mets are the Yankees. Yankees, the Yankees or the Knicks?

Joe Jordan 46:55

Yankees.

Chris Gandy 46:58

Okay, so see how easy that is? Right? And so yeah, whatever comes to mind first, that's what it is. So, so Joe, the one thing that you've learned that has inspired you the most?

Joe Jordan 47:16

Well, I think what it is, is understanding the power of storytelling and my own. I just went blindly through life and what have you. And then I look back in terms of the, the the situation my mother found herself, and I can see you're laying in bed crying at night, making a decision that the girls can't go to college, one of them got a full scholarship. So imagine what that did to them. And, and so it really took me until I was in my 50s that I made that connection. So I can't tell you how. So so that was that was the big that was the big lesson learned was beyond the numbers. What impact it would have on people's lives.

Chris Gandy 48:02

Everybody needs a coach, right? That's the best in the game. Michael Jordan had a coach. You know, Tom Brady had a coach Joe Jordan, who would who would you say would be your mentor or your coach,

Joe Jordan 48:14

there was two of them Bob Ben Moe Shea, who, who I actually worked with at Paine Webber, who and I was the one who brought him over to Met ATP Turkmen public. And then he went to AIG. And he, he paid the government back 185 billion plus a $20 billion profit. No one's ever done that. It was very close with him. It was the first time in a corporate setting that I saw someone who did things all for the right reasons, or for the right reasons and, and had the courage to do that. The other one is Nick Murray. And Nick Murray is a prolific writer in financial services. And he makes things so succinct, and, and easy. And so he gave me the intellectual prowess, if you would, the things that he made, he made that stuff simple. So I think those two those two people have really had a dramatic impact on on society.

Chris Gandy 49:07

Yeah. Nick Murray. He's great. He's still one of the great ones, you know, his stuff was legendary. MDRT, you mentioned you spoke on the mainstage. Right. What did that mean to you to have that platform to say, You know what, I'm here.

Joe Jordan 49:27

That was that was just wild. And you know, I was very nervous about it, you know, because they only gave me 20 minutes and, and then Queen Nora came after me. And she, she went over like 15 minutes, you know, and anesthetize the audience. I don't mind saying that because it was true. But but that was important because what happened is that got me able to get all of this pent up stuff I had and out. And so that was the first time that I expressed the anger with my father. for making those decisions that he didn't do the New York Life person, you know, for what he didn't do. And so it took a couple of years after that to really for me to assemble that, but but, you know, it was 20,000 people from around the world, you know, my wife walked in and saw the saw the auditorium was faint, you know. And, but no, that was great. I have to thank Jack Turner, who is a previous in the 80s. See, president of MDRT, who, who got me into that, and they saw the emotion of PAC that I had, and I opened the meeting. So I was the opening speaker. So that was, that was, that was quite a trip. The good thing is there's 20,000 people you can't see you, you know, it's in your eyes. The biggest audience I spoke to was 30,000. And that was I Thailand again, but you can't see him. So. So you don't know. But But But anyway, that was that was powerful.

Chris Gandy 50:57

Joe, two more questions. If I was starting in the business today. Talk to our NAIFA family out there. If you're starting into business today, what's the one piece of advice you would give somebody if they were starting today?

Joe Jordan 51:14

Okay, I would tell them the business is built on two principles, prospecting, and everything else. And that's not a joke. It's real. I mean, if you continue to prospect and find and do the energy towards making that you'll make it I don't care how smart or dumb er, you know, but you could be the you could be the Einstein of financial services of ain't talking to anybody, it's not there. That's why That's why there has to be something beyond the gray matter, to make that happen. And you have to feel a passion to do it. Who wants to put up with that? You know, I mean, I to this day, I do it. You know, people don't call you back and you know, that Gosha someone's not nice to you all that other stuff. So that that's what I think I would say you have to put a premium on the idea of prospecting, and figuring out how to do that better. I mean, it might be, oh, well, I just say different. Because back when I was doing it was dial and smile. So now you have all of this technology and ways to promote yourself. And so anything you could do that keeps you and I liked the idea of daily, I had to think daily contact commitment. I liked that I did it every day. And I my 74 of my managers said you have to contact 1010 people a day. And so I didn't know I couldn't do it. So I started doing it. And so it gets it out of the way and then you can get other stuff done. So that that's that's the most important thing. I

Chris Gandy 52:39

think we are visual people and you know, habits habits are contagious. Right? If we start them early, then we have a tendency to continue. Last question. This is from a Chicago into a New Yorker. Chicago pizza or in New York pizza,

Joe Jordan 52:57

New York Pizza

Chris Gandy 53:03

data comes over and I get it.

Suzanne Carawan 53:06

Do you fold over your slice? Joe? Do you feel? Yes, I do. Yeah,

Chris Gandy 53:12

I'm sure Joe, you can give us your favorite place in New York. If I'm in New York. Where should I go? If I'm gonna get this switch Call,

Joe Jordan 53:20

man? Oh I can't I can't think of the name of the place.

Chris Gandy 53:30

Suzanne, I'm stomping Joe Jordan. Look,

Suzanne Carawan 53:32

I know that so it's like too many places. It's like, there's so many options,

Joe Jordan 53:38

many options, right? Yeah, there's too and and they change all the time. You know? I'd say Keens Steakhouse. K E E N S Steakhouse. And what they have is they have the old time. Pipes, literally 1000s of them all on the ceiling. You know, that the more modern ones you see now, but ones back in the 1700s type stuff. Why is there I don't know. But that's a great place teen son. It's in the 30s on the west side.

Chris Gandy 54:07

Got it. When I visit New York, when you visit New York, you have to go there. Mr. Joe Jordan, it is a pleasure. Every time I get a chance to spend some time with you. We always learn something new. We've learned some stories about you today. Go out and get his book. Go out and see him on tour. If you'd have an agency, I know that Joe will be happy to come speak in your agency and, and bring a powerful impact. Thank you so much for all you've done for the industry. And what you continue to do for naifa we applaud you. Virtually at least Suzanne,

Suzanne Carawan 54:45

yeah. It Oh, that's always a pleasure. Thanks, everybody. Thanks to NAIFA's nation. Thank you, Chris.

Chris Gandy 54:51

Joe, do you have anything before I close us out? Final word.

Joe Jordan 54:57

Yeah, I just you know, appreciate that. You know, the time and anything I can do to help NAIFA? Let me know. And I especially the last thing I'd like to do, I would like to do some more meetings agencies. I like them all over the place, but especially the young people, because they're not hearing it. You know what I mean? They're not that it doesn't exist in our culture anymore. It's all about the Aum and it is but today, you know,

Chris Gandy 55:26

right. So thank you, Joe Jordan. Thank you, Suzanne. I'll close this out. Thank you for listening to today. Our advisors today's podcast, NAIFA's advisor day podcast where we focus on education, uplifting and empowering advisors of tomorrow. Go out and have a great week, and we'll see you next week. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Joe. We appreciate it. You and everything you do, sir.

Joe Jordan 55:48

Thank you. And I you both of you. Thank you.

Outro 55:56

Thanks for joining us for NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series. Make sure to subscribe to get future episodes. And if you're interested in coming on the show, let us know.

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