Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

• [02:34] Diane Boyle discusses the structure and mission of NAIFA’s Government Relations team
• [09:06] What to look for when hiring high-performing advocacy professionals
• [13:35] Showcasing the GR team more visibly at national events
• [19:43] Strategies to engage and attract new generations to NAIFA membership
• [30:24] Diane shares key policy issues to know ahead of the Congressional Conference
• [38:51] What not to do in meetings with lawmakers and how to stay nonpartisan
• [48:35] How NAIFA's in-district meetings strengthen legislative relationships

In this episode…

Creating effective government relations in a rapidly shifting political and regulatory environment can feel overwhelming, especially for professionals navigating federal and state-level advocacy. With political landscapes evolving and stakeholder engagement becoming more nuanced, how can organizations build a cohesive and influential advocacy strategy that drives policy impact?

Diane Boyle, a seasoned expert in government relations, outlines a dynamic, team-centered approach to advocacy. She emphasizes hiring team members with technical experience and collaborative personalities, ensuring everyone contributes to a shared mission. She shares how policy development begins with committee recommendations and moves strategically through lobbying channels. Diane also stresses mentorship and pairing new members with veterans to foster inclusive engagement. She recommends relationship-building over partisanship and highlights the need for personalized, respectful interactions with lawmakers.

In this episode of the Advisor Today podcast, co-hosts Chris Gandy and Bianca Alonso Weiss interview Diane Boyle, Senior Vice President of Government Relations at NAIFA, about building and leading high-performing advocacy teams. Diane discusses tips for attracting emerging talent, creating effective policy pipelines, and coordinating grassroots efforts. She also shares tips for navigating Congressional Conference meetings, aligning generational perspectives, and handling politically sensitive moments professionally.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Chris Gandy on LinkedIn
• NAIFA
• Bianca Alonso Weiss on LinkedIn
• Zack Huels on LinkedIn
• Diane Boyle on LinkedIn

Quotable Moments: 

• “You have to have political acumen, right? You have to have that understanding of how the government works.”
• “I want people who are going to work hard. I want people who are independent thinkers.”
• “If you really don't like them, the way that you solve that is you elect somebody else.”
• “We’ve been blessed that our issues are non-partisan, so don’t blow it.”
• “I play with whoever you put in the sandbox. So it doesn’t matter to me who.”

Action Steps:

1. Cultivate bipartisan advocacy relationships: Building trust with legislators across the political spectrum strengthens influence and ensures lasting policy success.
2. Hire for both expertise and team fit: Team chemistry is critical in high-stakes policy environments where collaboration and adaptability drive performance.
3. Conduct weekly internal check-ins: These meetings help align goals, identify resource gaps, and ensure consistent team progress.
4. Prioritize mentorship for new advocates: Mentorship accelerates learning and strengthens engagement by transferring institutional knowledge and building confidence.
5. Focus on education, not confrontation, in policymaker meetings: Constructive communication improves receptivity and keeps relationships open for future influence.

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by the National Association of Insurance and Financial Advisors, or NAIFA, the #1 association for producers in financial services. 

At NAIFA, we enhance professional skills, promote ethical conduct, and advocate for legislative and regulatory environments.

By joining NAIFA, you gain access to a partnership that elevates your performance while providing greater purpose to your professional work. NAIFA members are happier, make more money, and stay in the business longer.

Get in touch with NAIFA and learn more about how to join NAIFA by visiting NAIFA.org.

EPISODE TRANCRIPT

Intro 00:02

Welcome to NAIFA’s Advisor Today podcast series, where we focus on how financial advisers work, live and give to their local communities and our greater financial services industry. Now let's get started with the show.

Chris Gandy 00:20

Hi everyone. Welcome to Advisor Today's podcast, where we give you the voice of the advisor. I'm here with our wonderful guest co-host Bianca. Bianca, how are you?

Bianca Alonso Weiss 00:33

Hey. Hey, Chris. I'm doing very well. How are you doing? I'm excited to be back with you. I missed you.

Chris Gandy 00:38

GR team and wonderful co-host. She's been a wonderful fill in and we are excited to have her on the reboot of Advisor Today's podcast. And with that being said, I will let Bianca introduce our wonderful guest for today.

Bianca Alonso Weiss 00:56

Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much. Today I am very excited to have on our very own Senior Vice President of Government Relations, Diane Boyle. She has been with NAIFA. I think it's 33, 34 years now for. Yes. So in short, Diane is an institution at NAIFA. The reason why our government relations presence is so strong on the state and federal levels all stem from Diane Boyle and her efforts. And we are Diane, we're very excited to have you on today.

Diane Boyle 01:32

Thank you, Bianca and Christopher. Always good to see you. I'm going to have Bianca do my introduction. That's what I should do. Anyone who reports to me should actually do my introductions because, man, they're sweet.

Bianca Alonso Weiss 01:43

You know, I'm happy to do it.

Chris Gandy 01:45

It is wonderful to have both of you, because I know both of you work at kind of different levels. You know your responsibility within NAIFA. So let's start there. Diane, can you kind of talk about your team and kind of the dynamic of your team within Napa and kind of who does kind of what, because I think when they say GR people are like, okay, like, okay, like, who is this boy? Like all traces back to you, right? But you do have talented individuals that are earmarked or they're tasked to do certain things within the team. And here's an opportunity to highlight them and share with the world what they do to help you do what you do.

Diane Boyle 02:34

Oh, absolutely. And they do the heavy lifting. Right. Like I just get to be the sounding board and provide the amplify the work that they do. So I'd break it up into a couple of different buckets. So you have both the policy and the political side of it. And then within that you also have the different regulatory bodies. So you have the state-level work and then our work with Congress. So on the policy side or the development of policy, we have Roger Moore, who really works with our Government Relations Committee and host a whole committee of individuals who make recommendations to the board. Christopher, that you say, like, you'll see, actually, new policy is being recommended the next time that you guys meet that the Government Relations Committee went through, with Roger Moore's help to look at disaster mitigation policy and to formalize that policy, that committee makes recommendations to the board.

Board takes a look at it, says, yeah, we like it. We don't like it. We want to make changes and they develop the policy. So that's sort of how we get policy. Then once that policy is set, it then goes to if it's on the federal level and it's going to be dealt with by Congress, then you have Jane Fitzgerald and Michael Hedge and myself serve as sort of the federal lobbyist and will bring those messages to members of Congress on the staff side. Then on the state side, you have Bianca is leading that charge. She's working with all of our state lobbyists, our state execs and the different chapters to make sure that that policy is adopted or pushed through, or if we have challenges, if we have, you know, legislative proposals that are being put forth that are counter to what our policies are, then she's going to look at how do we put together an effort to defeat those bad policies, make sure we get those good policies implemented. Then on the political side, you really get into or it still crosses over into the policy a little bit.

If you look at our grassroots, our greatest strength is our members. And so Andrew Holt is really responsible for those grassroots efforts. He's tracking relationships between our members and members of Congress, our members and state legislators, our members and insurance commissioners, governors. Tracking all of that information so that when we know that we have a policy issue, we can actually leverage people that have relationships. And then on top of that, we want to make sure that we're actually getting the right people elected. And the way that you do that is you support them through their campaigns. And so we have a political action committee on the federal level, which is NAIFA PAC. And then in each of the states, we have a state PAC so we can support candidates running for state legislative office or for federal office. And that's really run by Stephanie Sheridan on my team. And Cody Schoonover, who the two of them really look at.

How do you raise funds so that we can support candidates that we know are going to be good for the industry? How do we then disperse those funds into those coordination between, obviously, what policy do we want? What are their thoughts as candidates on implementing policy? And then also how do you get that relationship? If we know that Christopher has a really strong relationship with Danny Davis, then we want to make sure that we're talking to you when it's time to support that campaign. And so it's really pulling all of that together. And then we have a great person, Shaneka Thomas, who helps keep all of us sort of organized on what's going on, make sure that we actually can show up for meetings and do those kinds of things. So on the administrative side, you see Shaneka doing a lot.

So there's a lot that's going on where we pull everyone in in order to really move this advocacy effort in a very strategic way and very focused and intertwined. You know, I mean, you see, on the regulatory side, I just saw that we had a post come out regarding the independent contractor situation and in a push from Dol that says, you know what? We're not going to push forward the independent contractor rule that was put in place in the prior administration. We're going to defer back to policy that NAIFA had supported previously, which was great news for us. But at the same time, Bianca sending us a note and says, hey, wait a minute, new Jersey is taking a look at what does it take for the ABC test, and how do we get that going? So we're like, wait a minute, that that kind of runs counter. But it's all on the independent contractor status, which a number of our members utilize. That's how they operate their businesses, as independent contractors. So anyway, it's really — I'll go on for hours, but I'll stop because you probably have other questions.

Chris Gandy 07:58

So Diane, let's go a little deeper, shall we.

Diane Boyle 08:03

Okay.

Chris Gandy 08:04

So how do you pick your talent on your team? You know, I know how talent is picked on most teams. But how do you pick the talent on your team? I mean, do you have tons of applications? Do you line them up and say, who's been doing press work, who's been doing lobbyist work? Like, how do you find people to be on your team? I'm sure most people aren't going to ask you this, but I'm sure you know, some advisor who's driving down the highway is listening to this saying, wait a minute. Right. That I could be on her team one day. Maybe. Maybe they don't.

I have no idea. But, like, tell us, how do you find your team? Where do they come from? Not necessarily, because we know Bianca has been all over the world and been in, like, the middle of Texas somewhere or something. And I'm giving her a hard time because she talks about that story. But you know, so how do people one how do they end up on your team or, you know, are they handpicked? Are they is the Nil deals? You know, like what? Like how does it work?

Diane Boyle 09:06

Yeah. Well it depends on when we have vacancies. Right. And when we're looking for talent. But what I look for and actually have to think about this, whether I hired everyone that's on the team. And I think that's true because I think even when Stephanie came on board, I still interviewed her. So so the whole so yes. So everyone that's on my team, I have to take responsibility for. And what I'm happy with is they're all rock stars. They really do. I look for talent Christopher, in a way that yes, you have to have basic level experience if you're going to be in a government relations department. You have to have political acumen, right?

You have to have that understanding of how government works. You have to have experience in knowing how do you work with legislators? How do you take a member organization and make sure that their wishes are influencing policymakers in order to get that good policy? But what I look for above and beyond that basic threshold of tell me that you have what it takes on paper to do this. I want personality. I want people who are going to work hard. I want people who are independent thinkers. I want people who are going to check in. And absolutely everyone on my team does that. We work with each other. We check in every Monday. So we did this today. We get together not only with our in-house team, but also we have outside counsel and we just kind of go through, hey, what's going on this week? And the second part of that meeting is internal staff only.

And that's our opportunity to say, hey, raise your hand. What are you working on? What do you need help with? Where do you have some bandwidth? Where you could help somebody else out. And let's get this. Let's get this done. So it can't be. It's — that's not my job. We don't do that in our department. And it really is. So we do. Yeah. We look for people that we work with. Sometimes it's people that you actually to your point handpick. When Jane Fitzgerald when we had a vacancy there on the tax area she was on the hill. So I knew her had worked with her for years. I knew her understanding. Our outside counsel actually knew her as well.

So there was a known entity that you want to bring in because you know, they're going to fit and work with the team. In other instances, it's people that we haven't worked with, but have that experience and have that team player Mindset and that drive to “I want to do better. I want to be the best,” and it becomes part of the team. And then that's how we move forward.

Chris Gandy 11:58

So it sounds like culture, right? So you're creating a team of winners, right, that are dynamic in their own right. And like you said, independent thinkers, their ability to be at their best on command, their ability to be task oriented, right, and their ability to work well within a team. Right. And so you mentioned some names that I've had the opportunity to meet, and they're all what I can share with people on this podcast are all very nice people, but they know what they're doing. Right. Everybody I've interacted with on your team. So those of you who haven't had a chance to interact with the grassroots team, you know, Diane would be dynamic.

And whether we did it this conference or next conference at some point would be to bring your team on stage and put on a panel. Right. And you moderate and you're asking questions, and the audience can ask questions of these people because, again, they can't put a name with the face. They just know that like everything goes back to that. I get it right. But, you know, I think people understanding who else is on the team would allow for you not to get the call and then say, hey, Bianca, you need to call this person. Like, it just I just think you're starting to put some names with faces, and I understand there's changes that happen along the way, but I think starting to understand the bandwidth of that team also allows for others who aren't supporting that team through opportunities and through, you know, now start to support that. I mean, grassroots, it starts from seeds, right. And planting seeds and opportunity. Let's shift gears. Go ahead.

Diane Boyle 13:35

Before we leave, though, I think there's a real opportunity at the National Leadership Conference to do just that. We've done that type of introduction of staff before, and that meeting has changed a bit over the years, but I'm hoping when we get back this year that we'll have that opportunity to do that again, because I think you're 100% correct, Chris. Understanding, seeing the faces, knowing what incredible talent really resides in these different areas is incredibly helpful to the membership.

Chris Gandy 14:04

Yeah, I think people get mixed up sometimes with this person does this because for a long time I thought Zack was on the team. I'm like, Zack's on your team. He's like, no, no. I'm like.

Bianca Alonso Weiss 14:12

My team.

Chris Gandy 14:14

That's on everybody's team like Zack is. But he moves around from place to place and I'm like, no, he actually is on his team.

Diane Boyle 14:20

We're all team NAIFA.

Bianca Alonso Weiss 14:22

That's right. There you go.

Chris Gandy 14:23

Corey's on your team. I know Corey's not. I was like, okay, so who's on that team? Right. So after a period of time, it took some years to get to know, okay, who's some people on that team. And so it's taken me a couple years. But as a new NAIFA member, perhaps I connect well with maybe a Bianca because of her age and her weight, the groups that she would connect with differently than maybe they would connect with, with, with you. I mean, the goal is creating that connection and that, you know, that synergy so that people feel like I know someone on the grassroots team. I think that's important, that everybody should know somebody that's on that team.

Bianca Alonso Weiss 15:07

Absolutely. And Chris, if I may, I'd love to jump in and kind of give like a very brief testimonial of what it's been like for, for me, you know, working under Diane and working on our national government relations team. You know, I, I came on to the team after being with for Texas for two and a half years, which was an incredible experience. And throughout those two and a half years, I would sporadically interact with, with the government relations team, whether it was PAC-focused or policy-focused, and they just were. Every single time I would reach out, no matter what the question was, no matter how silly in my mind it was, I was always met with, you know, kindness and understanding, and someone was always willing to explain whatever concept to me.

And when I joined the team, I was so impressed at just how collaborative of a team we are and at how and despite all of us doing sort of different things that were all still in cahoots with each other in some capacity. And I truly believe that the makings of a great team is feeling comfortable going to your teammates and, and asking questions and having those teammates really take the time and explain a concept to you. Because and in that, I really think like that and I'll speak for myself. It has made me such a better worker. It has allowed me to learn so much more about NASA's broad policy scope. Being a part of a team that welcomes, you know, conversations and questions.

And so, you know, in my time and, you know, working in the professional world like both within NASA and I guess pre NAIFA, this is hands down the best work culture I have ever been a part of. It has like we support each other, we get along and you know, if there's a fire drill there and we need to jump in and help, I'm confident every single one of us would say yes without even thinking about it.

Chris Gandy 17:27

And it would be a lot.

Diane Boyle 17:28

Of cursing, but we get it.

Bianca Alonso Weiss 17:29

Done. Well, yeah.

Chris Gandy 17:30

I mean, but that's like that's.

Bianca Alonso Weiss 17:32

That’s par for the course like in our industry. But we're happy to do it. We're happy to support each other. And it's. And I think it's and I think that's why our team right now it is a top-tier group.

Chris Gandy 17:47

Well I think anytime you have a high-performance team in an environment, it doesn't matter if it's sports, it doesn't matter if it's executive team, it doesn't matter if it's a team within a firm or an agency or it's just a little league baseball team. Right? There's got to be that connectivity and there's got to be the ability to challenge each other, to raise the level of performance. And to do that, it takes a little fire at times. Right. And that's what Diane is mentioning, is that it's okay sometimes that, you know, healthy disagreement. Right. In situations without, you know. Villainizing the other person and trying to understand their perspective and still move the needle.

So I think that's part of, you know, our challenge as NAIFA is how do we. So, Diane, I'm coming back to you. How do we do that within NAIFA. So that we can hear the voices of all those who, because we have some people in NAIFA that have a really strong opinion about we need to stay the way we've been for 9,000 years. And then there's the group that says, no, we need to be progressive. And then there's the group that says we need to be somewhere in the middle. Don't disturb the people that have been here forever. And so, Diane, from your perspective, from a government relations perspective, how do we bring these things together to create a synergistic. And again, perhaps you don't have an answer, but maybe you have some thoughts.

I'll ask you and then I'll ask Bianca at the state level, what are some of the things that we could do around government relations that can bring together some of the old school ways and some of the new school ways of actually putting together powerful messaging.

Diane Boyle 19:43

Yeah, well, I mean, I think if we keep with sort of the sports analogy too, right? The game is still the same game, but you have to recognize that times have changed. The equipment, if you're doing let's do football because I don't think basketball has equipment that has changed and progressed. But look at the, you know, just the helmets from year to year. That changes. Like there's going to be changes that they're changes in our industry that have occurred. And so we have to modernize. There's not a doubt in my mind that you absolutely have to do that. What we need to do, why we're successful, and why we have been successful for 134 years. I've only been here for the 34.

Is because we've activated our membership. It's because we've had a strong, large, diverse membership. We've got to continue that. And you can't continue that by just looking back and saying what we had before, because what we had before is gone, literally. Our membership had dot those that were here when we started are no longer with us. And longevity has improved. Some of that, but not 100 years. So you've got to continue to bring in new talent, new members. And when you do that in order, I don't think you go and necessarily recruit as much as you attract. I think that's how you get the winning teams, right. You want to attract. And then of course, there's the how do you get that person who's attracted to you to make sure that they're have the right talent and they're brought on to the team that's both on staff and on the volunteer side or the membership side.

We want to attract members. We want to attract people that are in this industry that say, hey, wait a minute. I know that this is a good industry. We do good things for the American consumer. I want to make sure that the laws that regulate how I work with these consumers are positive. And I recognize I can make a difference by belonging to an organization. We want them to be attracted to us. So what's going to attract them? What's going to attract Bianca and her age group may be very different than what attracted me and my age group, or the generation ahead of me, even because we have a lot of boomers that are still in our organization. So we want to make sure that there's a home for everyone. But how do you make those changes and how do you make sure that you do that? By having people that represent and look like those groups that you want to bring in. And the.

The good news for our industry is that we are a very diverse industry. We have members in every congressional district. We want to continue that. We want to grow, that we want to celebrate, that we're serving consumers in every demographic. So not that you can't have cross demographic serving each other or working with each other, but there's a natural tendency that that, you know, if I'm going to talk to someone, I'm going to have more experiences in line with someone who is a mother, who has a spouse, who has a dog. Whatever makes me. If there's someone who also has those same components to their lives, we have more in common.

There's just a natural opportunity to have those conversations. So I think the same is true with membership in the organization. You have to have somebody that connects with whomever you're looking to bring in. And I think who we need to bring in is the next generation, right? You don't want to disenfranchise the people that we have now. But the future isn't about me. The future is about whoever comes in behind. Bianca.

Chris Gandy 23:46

Bianca, you want to share some thoughts around that? Since Nathan Nation is listening to. Is she the youngest on the GRT team? Is she the. Is she the no wire? Is that her? She is the wire. What is she? I'm not sure. She's beyond. Okay.

Bianca Alonso Weiss 24:05

So sure. Well. And before I get into my answer. Diane, everything you said you just hit it on the you hit it on the head immaculately. So thank you for saying all of that. And then something that I, that that I've seen on both the, on the state level and especially on the federal level at national leadership conferences as well as congressional conferences, is especially when there's a first timer attending either event or like, again, whether on the federal level or at our signature events or on the state level for a legislative day. I really love seeing first timers who are typically, you know, of younger generations being assigned to a member that has been around for a bit and has a deep understanding of and I guess like in our world, a deep understanding of the advocacy component.

And I truly think that and I truly think that, you know, that having that mentorship, that mentorship opportunity, it is a very crucial way to engage that younger generation. Because at least when my way of engaging with people is I want to hear your experiences and then and then and then take those experiences and see, okay, like, like how, how can I work this into what? Like when I speak to our coalition partners, when I speak to regulators, when I speak to lawmakers, like how like, like how can I use those stories to amplify our messaging. And I think that's a strategy that I'll speak for myself that in my millennial generation we like hearing people's stories. We like to see how we can relate to you and vice versa.

And so I think and so to kind of tie it back to, to, to our, to our signature events as well as our state legislative days, I think a way to bring in that, that younger generation is, is by taking is by kind of assigning them a mentor, a, a buddy, a buddy, if you will. My mind is going to my old sorority days where we would have big sister and little sister. So like similar concept and just and honing in on the advocacy component for a second meeting with a lawmaker can be really intimidating. Meetings. What if it's your first time, whether on the state and federal level and having someone in that meeting with an already existing relationship. Is it is not it's not only a great way to get in the door, but it's also what. But it's also a really awesome opportunity to see firsthand how like, how these relationships are created, are established, are cultivated and how they're grown.

Chris Gandy 27:57

Yeah, it's interesting because when we went to a couple of our Illinois lawmakers, they had in their the University of Illinois all the stuff from Champaign, because I believe a couple of them are from like central Illinois, which is like the belt of the University of Illinois. So I walked in, and I guess all the people that are staff members there are from Illinois, which was interesting. So I walked in and I was like, I looked at Illinois helmet up there, that Illinois basketball. I'm like I said, well that's, I said, that's I said, what about it? Because it's kind of like the fight zone.

They were like, well, I and I was like, well, how do you know that? Right? You only know if you actually know if you know. Right. So it was kind of interesting, but they always remember every time I come there, they're like, you're ill. I'm like, that's me. I said, you played for Illinois. I remember that. So it's kind of interesting that I had never been to a meeting before. And like you said, I was. I don't know if I was nervous because I've, I've shot free throws in front of like 30,000 people or something crazy like that. So like talking to one person, I wasn't nervous about it. I was like, okay, whatever. But I just didn't know what to say or how to say what. Play to run. Diane I didn't know what play to run. I knew the playbook. You passed it out. Here's the playbook.

Read the script, follow the playbook. But I didn't want to pull it out and be like, okay, I'm not, you know? So I didn't know, even though I knew the play, I needed to know how to run the play. And I think using veterans and using experienced people to do that really helps as, as you mentioned, bringing things together. So with the things that are going on now, Diane, we're right on the precipice of congressional conference. We're on the heels of it. Yeah. Less than two weeks away. What are some of the things we're going to be? What are we're going to we need to be have our mind wrapped around. We've heard a little bit about this. What's it called? The something of tax. I was on a call the other day and we were talking about I'm like, what? What is the Super Bowl of tax?

I heard a little bit about that. But share with us more. What should we be at least aware of or at least coming with? Like maybe not an understanding yet because we don't know kind of the moving parts, but just kind of what's on the precipice, what's on the hot charts right now that we'll be talking about when we're sitting down and talking to our legislators.

Diane Boyle 30:24

So first and foremost, across any of the congressional conferences, when you come in, it's relationship development. So it's what you just described. Christopher, you're walking in, you're connecting with that staff. You want them to remember you because it's not going to be your only time going in. It's not like Congress is going to have this reconciliation bill this year. And then they're done, right? They're done with their work. They'll never deal with policy again. And that's going to be the primary focus that we're talking about is this reconciliation act, because that's what Congress is dealing with right now. So that's what we'll talk about. But they're going to have more issues.

They're not going to be done. And so we want to make sure that we establish the relationship. And we can go in as additional issues come about. But we'll be talking about reconciliation. And what that primarily entails is the Tax Cut and Jobs Act provisions that are expiring at the end of this year. Those need to be renewed in there. There are a few things that we care about, including 199 A, which allows for small businesses to have a 20% deduction that puts them on parity with sort of the corporations. We want to make sure that that's renewed. I think that's in there. We're going to talk about it. The bigger challenge is how are they going to pay for some of these things. And the president has come out with not only what he wants to see the provisions that are expiring put in. He has some other ideas that he'd like to see. He doesn't want to see tax on tips. He doesn't want to see.

He wants to see advantages for. Cars that are built in America. Like there are different things that he has that he wants to incentivize as well. Well, all of those things come with a price tag. So as that price tag goes up, you have members of Congress that go, hey, wait a minute. You know, we have this deficit and this debt that we're dealing with. And I don't know that I want to put a lot of new things on that we're not paying for. So where did the pay force come from? And our job when we come in is to make sure that we're saying, hey, wait a minute.

Let us tell you what we do for your constituents. And that's where when Bianca was talking about that pairing, which we always do with the new members coming in, and we have like record numbers of new members coming this year, which I'm super excited about. They're going to come in, they're going to meet with someone like you, Chris. It's been on the hill before and say it's easy. The value that you bring is really telling what you do every day because they don't know that. And once you realize, oh, this grassroots lobbying. Thing is just educating people on our industry, that's it. Then you have this. Like, wait a minute.

I'm actually — they can’t, they want to know. I have expertise that they need. It doesn't matter what age you are if you're serving their constituents and you're helping them achieve financial security, whether it's planning for college, whether it's paying off loans, whether it's setting up retirement plans, whatever component you bring to the industry, you're doing that on behalf of the individuals that they were elected to represent. So they need to understand how that works. So your ask is really pretty simple. Go in and tell them how you do that. And then we get into the deeper level of okay well what are you considering and how could that either enhance or throw off track what I do to help your constituents. And that's where we come in. We'll give you talking points that say this is what they're talking about.

Now, this is what's sort of on the radar. This is where we feel like we might be a little bit vulnerable and they don't understand. So one of them is this sea salt, which is interesting. So it's the corporate, state and local tax deduction that the insurers actually take any business really. But it is an even greater impact on our industry on the insurance side, because we pay premium taxes in each of the states. And there's sort of this misunderstanding when it was first talked about on the Hill, it was like, okay, if we are imposing a limitation on the state and local tax deduction for individuals, what if we did that for corporations or businesses? Wouldn't that be a good idea that would create parity on the individual side in the business side, except they don't operate the same. So on the individual side, a lot of the argument was, hey, if you live in a state with high state and local taxes, just move and you can get out of that, right? Maybe you're living in the wrong area because we're going to cap it at this amount.

Whether you agree with that or disagree, it doesn't matter on the business side. It doesn't matter where you are. You can't get out of it by moving because those taxes aren't paid where you're headquartered. They're paid on where you have customers. And we have customers across all of the United States, so there's no getting out of it. And the premium tax is paid whether the companies are earning a profit or not. So it's going to drive up the cost of the products. And so once we start having that conversation, you start getting people to understand a little bit like, okay, well then maybe that's not a good idea. And if you approach any of the legislative ideas that way, they need to learn what it does or doesn't do. Don't be hostile in any of those situations because I really don't believe there are a handful of members that maybe they're targeting different people, but by and large, it's not that you're being targeted, it's that there isn't an understanding of how the provision works.

And that's how our system is actually designed, is you want to have that grassroots input to say, okay, good idea, bad idea, you know? But let me tell you why that idea works or doesn't work. And then you inform them of how it actually would impact your business or how you do business. That's how you get good policy.

Chris Gandy 36:48

So, Diane, let me ask you this before we close. I know we're short on time. It's been 45 minutes already. So, Diane, we could talk to you forever, but what are the things that you should not do? You know, we talked about the things you should do, but, you know, I've been in meetings where it's like, well, I say that because we're in a political environment where everybody has an opinion right now, right? So there are some people in Napa, we already know this. I don't know who they are. I am not putting a name with a face or anything.

There's somebody there's some people in Napa that are, let's say, maybe not happy or not. You know, they're not. They're not siding with or without or with or either side of the political agenda at this particular point. And they're going to use this time as an opportunity to get their voice gets heard. Right. Can you share with us why that's not a good idea in this situation? Like, I'm cringing because I've been in a meeting where someone actually.

Diane Boyle 38:04

In my chair because.

Chris Gandy 38:05

I know exactly what you're talking about.

Diane Boyle 38:07

Went on to.

Chris Gandy 38:07

Like, you're like.

Diane Boyle 38:09

We're like, hold on. We're like, the script says this. We're saying it. It's not on the script. I don't care. Well, we'll just go with that. So how do we talking point?

Chris Gandy 38:21

Said trash your member of Congress. I don't remember that in the right.

Diane Boyle 38:25

Right. But with that being said, you know, all jokes aside, we're in a heightened political like space right now. So how do we make sure other than breathe? Okay. Got it. Stick to the script. Right. How do we make sure that or things that people should not do while they're in this brief conversation with lawmakers?

Diane Boyle 38:51

Yeah. So a colleague of mine shared this and I thought it was the I repeat it all the time. So shout out to Susan Callanan for saying this. We've been blessed that our issues are non-partisan, so don't blow it. Now that part's me. She didn't. She's much nicer than what I am. But don't blow it. They really are. You can have. You can belong to whatever political party you want. You can have whatever, you know, thoughts you have about your member of Congress, whether it's the guy that you voted for, whether it's the guy that you didn't vote for, doesn't matter.

That's who holds that office right now. And you need to be respectful. And chances are, if you disagree with that individual, they need to hear our message in a constructive way, more so than the guy that would agree with you. So you need to approach it that if you really think that you have a knucklehead as your member of Congress, they don't understand anything. I can't even believe you took this meeting with me. And let me tell you why you've done everything wrong. You're not going to get anywhere if you go in and you have an approach that says, let me tell you what we do for your constituents. Let me tell you where I think things could be improved so that you could be a better legislator.

We could have a better community. You're going to have a better reception to that approach than going in with the fire and brimstone. And I don't know about you. It irks me because I've been in this business long enough when someone says they work for me. Now, you elected them if you're in their congressional district. Yeah, they do technically work for you. If Bianca if I walked in to Bianca and I wanted her to motivate her to do something, if I walked in and said, Bianca, you work for me, Bianca is going to be flinging some middle fingers. They may be below the screen, but she's not going to be real receptive to that approach. If I go in and say, Bianca, look kind of misstepped here. Let's figure out how we can do it so that you look better. I don't want to see you in a situation where others are looking at you, and because that's what they're looking at.

There are and like I said, there are a handful of members that, you know, I don't think are completely altruistic. Good one, that that is no longer here and is now doing a little bit of jail time. George Santos, you know, where he comes in and he makes up stories and he does kooky things. I don't think he had the best interest of his constituents in mind, but by and large, most of them are. And if you say, hey, we're in this community together, how do we solve this problem? And we may disagree. We may come at it from different angles. But if we're trying to achieve financial security. Isn't there some common ground? Can we talk about where we where can we find that common ground? And that approach is always good. And if you really don't like them the way that you solve that, did you find somebody else to elect the next time? But until you're successful with those efforts.

That's what I like to say is I play with whoever you put in the sandbox. So it doesn't matter to me who you put there. That's who's there. So let's figure out how we can work together. And so, yes, you absolutely can't go in with a hostile approach to your lawmaker or their staffs. By and large, the staff is going to be nice to you. But even if they become argumentative, it's take the high ground like we don't need to wallow in those fights. It also I talked a lot about our pack and our ability to support their campaigns. Hard, no on having those conversations in the congressional office or even in the state legislature. When you're meeting with a state lawmaker, there may be the same individual, but it's Dianne Boyle as the candidate is who gets PAC contributions and support.

Dianne Boyle, as a policymaker, you talk policy. You don't leverage the two. They're different. Fastest way to get shut down in a meeting is to bring up political contributions. They know whether you support them or don't support them, by and large, but also by and large, they're there to hear. They represent everyone who's a constituent. If you're going in and you're constituent whether you supported them or you didn't support them. They're there to hear your ideas. So share those in a constructive way.

Chris Gandy 44:02

You know, Dianne, someone once told me that whether we like him or not, that's still someone's son or daughter, right? That's still someone's either father or mother. And so if you wouldn't say it in front of their parents, then you shouldn't say it, right. If you wouldn't say it in front of their kids, then you wouldn't say it. Can you imagine if, like, everybody approached the world that way? Wait a minute. That's somebody. Even with the people we disagree with the most, we're like, okay, that is someone's father. That is someone's kid. Like, you're right, kids make mistakes.

So we would approach things a little bit differently. And if we approach everything with curiosity first we tend to have an understanding or learn an understanding from their perspective. Bianca, I know this is your boss. But at the end of the day, this is the one time you get a chance to ask her a question that you can never ask again. Like this is this is that time, right?

Bianca Alonso Weiss 45:02

Oh gosh.

Chris Gandy 45:03

You have anything you want to. You want to ask before we close? Clothes.

Bianca Alonso Weiss 45:07

Yeah. You know, I so I mentioned in my introduction that Dianne Boyle has been with NAIFA for 34 years, which is like incredible. I mean, I feel like I feel like you don't see that kind of longevity in or you don't see that kind of longevity as much in roles anymore. And so but so, Dianne, I don't think I've ever asked you if you weren't doing this like being in government relations, what would you be doing?

Diane Boyle 45:31

All right. That's a hard one. When you do something for 34 years, and I would argue that it probably started at well before by my tenure at, I don't know what the heck I would be doing.

Chris Gandy 45:45

Chris, you got an answer?

Diane Boyle 45:46

I do.

Chris Gandy 45:48

Survey said I think she'd be a politician of some sort. That's what I think. That's my honest belief. I think you would be a very good, good, very good politician and someone easy to vote for. I think people would like you. I think you would have a well-rounded thought process, but very determined on what your decisions were and have a firm ground on standing on actual real reasons for standing on that, right?

Diane Boyle 46:16

Although that's still a.

Chris Gandy 46:17

Made up thing.

Diane Boyle 46:18

I think a real thing or should be an actress. Bianca should be an actress of some sort. You know, that's what I think. That's fine.

Chris Gandy 46:29

All right, we'll take.

Diane Boyle 46:30

We'll take those answers.

Chris Gandy 46:31

That works.

Chris Gandy 46:35

But again, Diane, it's on you. What do you think?

Diane Boyle 46:38

No, I honestly, I really don't. I have I take things as they come to. You know what? So, like, you kind of fall in place with what your, your talents are and your skill sets, I joked, actually, now, now it's coming back to me. If I had to do something else. I was talking with my husband because we were talking about like, where, where would you live? Where would you do? And this is obviously pre-COVID, but even during Covid and post-COVID, if you're in government relations on the federal side, you better be in Washington, D.C. like, I don't have an option of going somewhere else, but if we were to live somewhere else, what could I do? I think actually, my husband asked me that. Like, what the heck could you do? What do you set up and designed to do? Aside from as my children think, talk, and eat, which I do, and drink, I do all of those things. And I said I would teach civics so.

Chris Gandy 47:40

That.

Diane Boyle 47:41

That would be which does fall in line with. Now, of course, I'd have to have some funding from another source, because I don't know that that would support my lifestyle teaching, but maybe. But the education, which really is what lobbyists do. You're providing education to people, you're sitting down, you're having a conversation. and I do have an understanding of how government works. So I think putting that into to play would probably be where were I would land.

Chris Gandy 48:13

Awesome. You know, we're on the precipice of congressional conference. And Dianne Boyle, it's always a pleasure having you on, Bianca. It's always wonderful seeing you. Diane. Do you have anything in closing that you would like to tell Nathan Nation? On the heels of congressional conference.

Diane Boyle 48:35

Congressional conference isn't your only opportunity. So one, if you're coming, great. Can't wait to see you if you're not coming. Still time to register and come. And if you're not able to make it, don't miss out on NAIFA in the districts. So when Congress goes on recess in August September time frame, we schedule meetings with them back home. So you don't have to come to DC. They're going back home. They're going to be in your district. And the beauty of those meetings is you get more time with them. The beauty of congressional conference members from across the country all come in. It's that optic of FFA members are everywhere, which we are. But it's visual. It's very much a visual type. But in D.C., the meetings rule. You got to be quick.

There are 9 million people coming in and out. You're going to come in, you're going to tell your case, they're going to usher you out. Somebody else is going to come in right behind you. When you're doing meetings in the district, you get a little more time. And as I said, what we really want is that relationship development so that we really can positively influence policy over time. And you get more time to sit down with the legislators back home. So take advantage of that opportunity. If you're listening and you're not coming to D.C., or even if you are. Take advantage of those in district meetings.

That really is an opportunity to see how you can develop that relationship, how you can have that member of Congress to start calling you. That's the epitome of the relationship is when they know, oh, something's popping, I better call my member because they're going to give me the goods on what's going down.

Bianca Alonso Weiss 50:18

I also feel like meeting with your member of Congress in their district. It provides for a more relaxed setting and a more I mean, not that conversations like that that you have on a congressional conference aren't free flowing, but I think when a member of Congress is in their home turf, turf and, you know, speaking to their, to their constituents, it just it just flows easier. And I do find that that conversations are, are still equally, if not more productive that way.

Chris Gandy 50:56

Well, with that being said, we've come to the end of our wonderful podcast today, and thanks all of you for taking the time, energy and effort and listening to Advisor Today podcast, where we give you back the voice of the leaders of our association and go out and make the world a little better place for us and our clients by learning more from our wonderful GR team. Thanks to Diane Boyle and thanks to Bianca for being here. Thanks for Zack for putting together this production. We continue to bring you great podcasts with great content. So if you have some ideas that you would like to hear on the podcast, email Zack at NAIFA. But we look forward to continuously bringing you the revamp of Advisor Today podcast. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.

Outro 51:45

Thanks for joining us for NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series. Make sure to subscribe to get future episodes, and if you're interested in coming on the show, let us know.