How Advisors Can Navigate Discussions About Aging and Long-Term Care Planning With Carroll Golden

Carroll Golden

Carroll Golden is a consultant, public speaker, and leader with a comprehensive background in business development and effective strategy implementation. She is the Executive Director of the Specialty Centers at the National Association of Insurance and Financial Advisors (NAIFA) and the President of C. Golden Consulting, LLC, where she provides strategic consulting, including business plan and sales strategy development. Carroll is the author of How Not To Tear Your Family Apart, an industry resource for professionals that addresses the challenges of working with today’s aging population.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

Why Carroll Golden got started in financial planning for long-term care
How does Carroll maximize her ability to work?
Why NAIFA’s (National Association of Insurance and Financial Advisors) Specialty Centers are a great resource for members
What motivated Carroll to write How Not To Tear Your Family Apart?
How did Carroll push women financial advisors forward?
Carroll talks about the challenges of talking about long-term planning
Carroll explains how using county services resources can help prepare families for the future
Carroll shares how helping others grow elicits a feeling of accomplishment and a sense of community
What is the future of long-term care?

In this episode…

As they age people wonder what kind of planning would help their families. Discussing a family’s long-term needs can be tricky, but does it have to be? How can professional advisors ease the strain of this conversation?

According to Carroll Golden, you don’t need to be an expert to initiate the conversation — you need courage and education. She created a three-step formula that helps families discuss this sensitive subject. Her experience from looking behind the curtain of multi-generational families dealing with aging relatives and navigating the care it takes to handle that situation gave Carroll a unique picture of what’s truly needed when planning for the future. She shares the insights she’s gained and how advisors can help facilitate the conversation about extended and long-term care in a way that helps the whole family.

In this episode of Advisor Today, join Suzanne Carawan and Chris Gandy as they sit down with Carroll Golden, Executive Director of the Specialty Centers at NAIFA, to discuss how advisors can help families prepare for extended care. Carroll talks about the resources available to help with future planning, navigating the sensitive topic of aging and long-term care planning, and the framework to use for facilitating decision-making.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by NAIFA's Limited & Extended Care Planning Center.

The LECP Center empowers professionals to network with solution and service providers to share best practices; directly access subject matter experts, research, training, and resources; and provide thought leadership so we may continue to address the changing needs of the market.

At NAIFA, we enhance professional skills, promote ethical conduct, and advocate for legislative and regulatory environments. By joining NAIFA, you gain access to a partnership that elevates your performance while providing greater purpose to your professional work. NAIFA members are happier, make more money, and stay in the business longer.

Get in touch with NAIFA and learn more about how to join NAIFA by visiting NAIFA.org.

Episode Transcript

Intro 0:02

Welcome to NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast series where we focus on how financial advisors work, live and give to their local communities and our greater financial services industry. Now, let's get started with the show

Chris Gandy 0:21

Hi, this is Chris Gandy, your co host of Advisor Today podcast where we feature top leaders in the insurance and financial services industry. I'm joined by our wonderful co host Miss Suzanne Carawan of NAIFA I Suzanne. Hi Chris. Today we've we're going to be welcoming Carroll Golden and past guests include past President Tom Michael yet Leader of the Year, Brian Haney and others three other industries great like greats like Brian Ashton, just to name a few. Know Suzanne, you want to talk to us a little bit about our, our sponsors, our sponsor today.

Suzanne Carawan 1:01

Yeah, today's episode is brought to us by NAIFA's Limited and Extended Care Planning Center sponsors. We've had a multitude of sponsors who've helped support and build the center from scratch, which originated in 2018. And today's guest is Carroll Golden, who's led the charge in building out NAIFA's first center of excellence, and has gone on to spearhead different centers, which I'm sure will unpack today. But Carroll is here to talk about the work that she's done in long term care, today's a special day because we're actually simultaneously doing an entire virtual impact day on don't be scared of long term care, since it is Halloween. And tomorrow kicks off long term care Awareness Month. So Carroll, we're delighted to have you. Thank you for joining us, even though you've got a super jam packed schedule. And we're looking forward to talking to you today.

Carroll Golden 1:50

Thank you. It is my pleasure. Thank you for the invitation.

Chris Gandy 1:54

Miss Carroll. So let's let's get going and how this kind of works is, you know, I'll be asking some of the questions today and, and again, you know, ask you questions about your past kind of the things you're working on. We're gonna talk a little bit about, you know, this wonderful book and what's coming up and NLC and opportunities that you're super excited about and, and points that I think that, you know, you'd like others to know and be a part of us specifically in and around the long term care space. So let's get started. So long term care, you know, I've been in the business now 23 years, and I can tell you only in the last probably three or four years that I really embrace long term care and kinda the impact it can have on clients, because I saw clients started age, can you share with us why you know, your passion and why long term care is so important to you?

Carroll Golden 2:54

Sure, when I first started out, I was doing financial planning, I was working with an attorney, a CPA and myself. And we were putting together estate plans and other financial planning instruments. When lo and behold, one of them blew up, because the wife had a stroke and was going to be in a bad way. For a long time. It wasn't going to be terminal, she was going to need long term care for a long time. And it really changed everything that we had laid out, not realizing we have missed the risk of what happens when you do need extended care or long term care. After that, it happened a second time. And that's when Chris, I got interested in looking at the contracts that were out there, which were not great. And one of the carriers came to me and said, Look, if you're that interested, why don't you come and work for us and see what we're up against what we can and cannot do from a legislative point of view, and so on and so forth. So that was the beginning of why I got interested, I felt that I had truly let those clients down, and that they would be more to come.

Chris Gandy 4:27

So we're on the precipice. We're on the doorstep of Long Term Care Month, right Long Term Care Awareness Month and talk to us a little bit about how did you get started in the business? I mean, it's always interesting. Everybody starts at a different place. How did you get started in the business?

Carroll Golden 4:46

Well, having had that experience, I started to read the contracts because my first career, I was a translator, and so I really valued the impact that a word can have And considering we all learn words in the context of our life, so and that's not always a shared context. So your parents have maybe a different view than you do have exactly the same solution or the same issue. So I started to get more and more interested in how consumers were literally ignoring the risk of long term care. And things progressed from there lots of research, I love research, lots of ability to talk with literally talk with those who were distributing, I left the carrier and went out into distribution, because I felt maybe I didn't understand how difficult the conversation this, was. That's how I actually got started trying to educate myself.

Chris Gandy 5:53

So education is empowerment. Right?

Carroll Golden 5:57

Certainly, it certainly is and

Chris Gandy 6:02

So your track of being in the business? So So kind of give us an idea of what's your day to day? I mean, Suzanne mentioned a little bit about your insanely busy, super, super successful, you know, but share with us so so so so what are you up to today? And kind of how is your show? You know, when you wake up in the morning, what's your typical schedule look like?

Carroll Golden 6:24

Well, I'm a person who through long term care really values staying in good health. Wellness is a buzzword now. But in order to really understand how to maximize my ability to work, I literally start out at the gym, Chris, because that gets me, you know, whether I'm bicycling or lifting weights or whatever, it's my time. And I find that that's when I say, Okay, today is our don't be scared of long term care. What's this going to look like for me? How am I going to work out the rest of the day, I really love being part of LECP, we're now very intently working on the employee and executive benefits center, because we feel that so many people now you need, et cetera, we we have to be specialists, there's so much information that we we can't really know it all. So when NAIFA had the opportunity to create these centers of excellence, that allow our members if they don't know about a particular product or a particular place to go, it provides them with that. So I think a lot about how to enhance it, I have worked very closely with Suzanne, for five years, building this opportunity for NAIFA members to say they have my back, they really understand that I can't be everywhere at all times that I need their help. And the center's are a big part of every day for me, because one, we depend on our sponsors. Our centers don't actually take any money from the membership dues. It's our sponsors, like OneAmerica that literally make the centers possible, so that we can put on programs like today's program, we've already done this morning, reverse mortgages, we've done behavioral finance, we did a session on advocacy. And now we have Jeff Levin, doing one from OneAmerica, this will go until six o'clock tonight, because we really try every day to provide something significant to our members.

Suzanne Carawan 9:02

So I'd say Carroll, you know, just in doing this for last five years, when we first started out when you when you and I first met one of the one of the initiatives we had was to try to people still like long term care was this. You know, it was terrible word, right? No one wanted to talk about the land, traditional products, the whole thing and like hybrids, were just coming into the market, et cetera. And now I mean, what a change, you have to reflect on where we are with COVID and everything else. That's how things have changed and where we are for most financial advisors today. And then kind of the work that's still to be done.

Carroll Golden 9:37

Yes, I think when you think about that, As Suzanne said five years ago, even in calling the center it trying to find a name, frankly, Chris, we were afraid to call it the long term care center because it's back away. Let's not go there. So that's why we called it the limited and extended care emphasis on I'm Planning Center. And I think for the most part, we, as an industry now, when the Washington Cares Act fund came through, and there was this flurry, for every carrier, every distributor, every buddy star started talking about the risk that all of a sudden, even the state are starting to say, you know, this is getting to be the time, enormous sums are being spent by the state, by private citizens, we really have come to the point now, where we, we have to have a solution. So when I'm talking to advisers, when I was working in that area, this is a risk. We talk about investment risks, we talk about market risks, we talk about deflation risk, why don't we talk about something that can quickly interfere with the plans that you have? Think of the tax impacts when I come to you, Chris, as a client and say, Chris, this is gonna cost me like, $100,000 a year, and it's kind of, I can expect 10 years, what can you do, that's not a surprise that Chris wants, and we want to make sure that you have at least spoken to them about, it's another risk? We need to discuss this,

Chris Gandy 11:36

you know, on the eve of Halloween, or how it is Halloween today, you know, no one wants to be scared. And I can say that, you know, part of it, for me as an advisor has been education, and the opportunity to really understand. So can you for those who are out there that were like me? Maybe people will say, many advisors will say, well, they have disability insurance. So that'll that'll take care of it or, you know, obviously, common common thought is that, you know, I have health insurance or, you know, Medicare will take care of it. That's the common thought. And so advisors will back away from it, because they're like, you know, hey, I don't know how to overcome that be, you know, yeah, maybe they're right. And, and see, you know, I don't know enough to be dangerous to really equip myself with enough tools, because perhaps my carrier, my main carrier, the current company I worked for, or I affiliate with, may not have that product or may not promote that product to their core to the to the, to their channels. So how do I overcome? How do I overcome that? And what would you say to those, those people?

Carroll Golden 12:55

I have two, two main answers that I usually get? Well, one, it's the reason I wrote the book, the first book, how not to tear your family apart with 93, links, references, websites, so that if they want to initially at least look at us can can you use an HSA to pay premiums later for long term care after I retire, if I'm worried about that, that they would have a reference book. And then, with the encouragement of many of my friends, Suzanne included, we felt that we needed a consumer book that an advisor could give to a consumer and say, here's a multi generational family facing this issue. And you'll see yourself in there. So if you read even a part of it, why don't we just talk about what in there did you think could have been better for that family? Or would apply to you? What I think is starting the conversation, you don't really need expertise. for that. You need courage and you need in the book, I created three steps, a formula, how can I talk about this topic? The other thing is education. We have an entire center, where there is nothing that you're not going to be able to find one of the solutions pulled out for the particular family in this book is fx benefits. Complicated. Very. Do we have an expert on it? Yes, we have someone who wrote the book on Medicare, as you said, they often think Medicare is going to handle it. So we need to dispel that. So I often encourage people start the conversation. I don't think If they're going to look to you for an answer, because they don't even know to ask the question yet.

Chris Gandy 15:06

I am not I'm so impressed by the fact that this has been the the, the initiative of NAIFA to build this out. You know, Wayne Gretzky said it best when they asked him when he joined the Hall of Fame as is, hey, Wayne, why was your goal so many more than everyone else's? And Wayne Gretzky said, Because I skate where the puck is going, not where the puck is at. And, you know, we have to be, we have to anticipate and we have to go and have courage, you know, and have the ability to have those conversations even when we don't have all the information. You know, all successful people, though, they've all all we see is the success. We don't see the trials and tribulations. So what would you say has been your if you look back at history, at your career, what would you say has been the biggest let's call it either challenge or pitfall they did that they confronted you? And then how did you deal with that?

Carroll Golden 16:08

I would say obstacle,

Chris Gandy 16:10

obstacle. Yeah,

Carroll Golden 16:12

I would say I'm my biggest obstacle. I never learned to say no. My kids always say, Mom got to learn to say, No. I really believe that successful people like yourself, you're very focused. And whenever I hear you speak, or whenever I'm working with people at at NAIFA in leadership positions, they stay focused. So that's what I had to overcome spreading myself too thin, thinking I had to have the answers when actually I could call Chris. No. I think that, for me, that was a hard lesson to learn. I always wanted to solve everyone's problems. I had to learn to figure out how do I know what's their problem? Maybe they actually don't have longevity on their side. And I'm wandering into this discussion of longevity, when actually their discussion is that you don't have family nearby, completely missed the mark. So for me, the biggest obstacle was learning to focus on incoming and saying no, to excessive outgoing. was yeah, I'd also say,

Suzanne Carawan 17:30

Carol, I mean, in in working with you for five plus years. I mean, we've had a lot of conversations. And I think, I think we'd be remiss if we didn't touch on it just a tad bit, which is, you know, you it's not like, when we first started working together, there was a trust factor, because the majority of your career has been spent with men. And it was a different thing to start really working with, with women. And you were, I think, very blessed and very fortunate that you created a study group of just amazing women that you've been together, how long now? Like 20 years maybe.

Carroll Golden 18:02

Right? Right.

Suzanne Carawan 18:03

Can you kind of touch on that for just a bit? Because I think that's that's really important to know, you're you're really a trailblazer in that regard. Me? Clearly, there's many people that come for you as well. But you certainly did your part in making sure that we could push women financial advisors forward.

Carroll Golden 18:20

Yes, I think I think I was very lucky that I was invited to join this group. Almost two decades ago, the group was already in existence. And what I learned was that 20 years ago, it took a woman to pull another woman through, it was still, yeah, you have a string of designations. Can you please go get the coffee, and we'll talk about it later, you know, that sort of thing. So these women got together and decided that as a matter of fact, it led me to realize for the center's that the diversity in the group was essential, because it was a very diverse group of women, all coming from the same topic, long term care from different angles, different backgrounds, different ethnicities, and therefore I wasn't hearing myself, we would get together. And we would literally present PowerPoints to one another, so that we would understand what's the role of reinsurance in this industry. Wider actuaries model things, what does that mean, etc. So it wasn't only about the things I knew, it was about the bigger picture. So when I came to NAIFA and was asked about the centers, I thought, this is important. We have to make the bigger picture. It can't be the usual suspects only. It has to be to asking women business owners, we have several members, who are women business owners, and therefore, they need a voice too. We have several that are involved in behind the scenes, caregiving, nurses, how do we adjudicate who's a claim and who's not a claim? So what I learned was that we have to stand up for everybody, it can't just be what I had to grow up with, with just generally, men in charge. So it's, that group continues to be a total inspiration for me, I just attended the Gree drinker Summit, and was very impressed with the information there. It's from a legal point of view, we don't often hear that, what are the big challenges that the industry is facing? So it was a, it was a very good model for me, and I paid it forward, I have been pulling up and you know, I have to tell you guys that I'm in the middle of working on a Spanish version of the book. So that some people who don't necessarily feel comfortable with just one language, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to help those who need help. And that doesn't always mean insurance.

Suzanne Carawan 21:36

Yeah, you know, and I'm not what I was just going to add, one of the things I think, has been the most fascinating and I curse, you can definitely weigh in on this one, too, is, during this journey we had this last five years, you know, we didn't know COVID was coming, right. And that completely upset how everybody thought, of course of nursing homes, no one wants to go there. Now that's not part of the plan. People want to stay at home and caregiving change, the workforce change, etc. But the other piece that really I think came to light is that when it comes to long term care, how specific it has two cultures, right, and different groups of people, like if there's one thing that's really specific to kind of where you come from and and how you want to work with your clients. It's that how people are going to, you know, go through long term care, and maybe towards the end of life is very specific and something that I think we've tried to really highlight that advisors need to develop those sensitivities, understand their markets, right. And that's something I think that uniquely, both of you have done a phenomenal job on. So I mean, I probably asked both of those visors, like, do you want to touch on that a little bit? Because I think that's something that's a really salient point, this chromatic COVID of understanding that it's not all, like long term care is a very sensitive issue of staying in your home caregiving, right, a sensitive issue. And then what are some sensitivities, you know, of how financial advisors need to develop some new skills there

Chris Gandy 22:57

are what are your thoughts? Carol? What are your thoughts around that? I mean, obviously, you know, we're very humbled to have you on Carol did not mention Carol. Well, you just quickly mentioned the name of your book. And I know we can get it on Amazon. The word is she's actually going to be signing it at NLC if you buy enough of them. So but but the name of a character, can you hold it up?

Carroll Golden 23:21

This is this is the one for the industry, how not to tear your family apart. The other one is how to cool your family apart. And it has no references. It is simply to allow any client in any situation to read through. I go through Chris, every, every available way of looking at this because you know not everybody has a budget. And not everybody has health that will allow them to look at insurance. So we do need to be sensitive to the fact you know, it frustrates me that so many people don't use their county services, which they're running themselves ragged, but there are services that deliver food that can transport somebody so that at you know, the person who is the caregiver can continue to do their job, because they have this other help. So I think it's important that we recognize that a lot of people have a particular situation, their idea of investing is very important to them. So if they can continue to use other services and can continue to invest in their work so they can do their 401 K or send some funds to their investment person. That's major That's, that's where we have to be.

Chris Gandy 25:04

You know, talk to us a little bit about. Just advice. So what is the future? Let's fast forward the tape. What is long term care look like 10 years from now? I mean, the distribution of long term care if I look at it, in my history, the distribution of long term Term Care has changed dramatically. From when I started, right. When I started, everybody in your mother was issuing long term care policies, right, that market has shrunk. And the future of long term care? Can you speak to that? I know, you know, you don't have a crystal ball. But But what is the market look like? In the future? If you could give it a a once over? I mean, what do you know about your profession? I just want your thoughts. Obviously, you don't know the answer. But just kind of what do you think?

Carroll Golden 25:53

I think that's a great question. And one of the things that I will say is, like you, I saw that go from traditional long term care where they mispriced a lot of it based on life insurance, etc, to the creation of hybrids. And at the legislative Working Group and part of LECP, we are aware that, for example, the state of Washington is speaking with five carriers about creating a supplement to their mandatory program. So we can expect to see what some new product there. There's also a great deal of discussion. I'm under an NDA, but I can tell you that there are a very well rated carrier, who is in the process of product approval, that is very different from the products that we're looking at now. And we have one state that has approved products that look like life stage products. So I think, you know, looking in the crystal ball, which is obviously a bit foggy, but I would say to answer your question, Chris, I think we're going to see a very much more diverse way of answering with products, the short term care product for someone who has very limited funds, but is quite ill may want to leverage their money. We're seeing that that's already approved in 40 states, and the sponsor in LECP. Aetna has given us a lot of information on where they think their new product is going to go. I think it's demographics. I think it's state legislation. And I think it's the awareness of more and more investment people, agents and advisors saying, you know, I better look at my own family, let alone my book of business. It's mature to the point where I think in the future, we can expect more people talking about it. Many more states involved in it, new carriers coming in, because they'll look at what's my approval process now. Because that's another thing that has come up getting new product approved for some of the newer needs, I think we will look a lot more to technology, think of where telehealth is gone, that's going to influence where you can access care. Therefore, the amount of risk that you have that you would have to leave your home, as Suzanne pointed out. COVID was a chilling, scary, awful experience for most people. I think that that will also raise awareness. So that's five or six different areas that I think we're going to see substantial changes. What a great question.

Chris Gandy 29:00

Well, I figured I'd ask you the question that I know you are, you're always ready to answer the question. But so our first book is out. And the second one should we see look forward to that next year?

Carroll Golden 29:15

No, I think it'll be this year. I am sending in a final, you know, they make you go through point by point your layout. It's truly to help everybody see that this is not one person's issue. All of us belong to multi generational families. And so there's so much bad news about long term care and extended care. I decided in this book, this family was going to find solutions where they have disagreements where their tension. Yeah, well, I designed three steps to minimize that from working over the years with my woman's growth. with NAIFA, members, with carriers, and with distributors, tried to put it all together to say, how can we approach it without talking about us, but talking about their family. And as the book goes on the advisor, the agent, they're the facilitator. And when you are a facilitator, your book of business will grow.

Chris Gandy 30:29

Wow. Well, I can tell you that it's always a pleasure having you here. One last question for you. Your biggest, your your proudest moment? You know, to date, obviously, you've had numerous ones, but the one that stands out is, you know, what, this has been my proudest moment. So far. Obviously, we're still growing and developing as professionals and human beings alike. But what is it? If you take a look, and you were to summarize, just one, what would you say is your proudest moment in this industry so far?

Carroll Golden 31:04

Well, that's a tough question. But I will say that when my book came out, I'm, I'm a workaholic. And I always felt that my children had to put up with my always looking, I'd love to learn Chris. So every time there was a new degree, I had to go and study and learn and do. But when the book came out, it was my two children. And my son's wife who celebrated, they were so moved, I'm gonna get choked up. But that was probably so meaningful to me. And then having people that I have worked with, over the many years, send me congratulations, and thanks. It was so much work. I had so much help. But it was my give back. And my give back has turned out to be my blessing. Expect.

Chris Gandy 32:11

And, and so can you give. So what is NAIFA meant to you? During your career? I mean, you've been able to partner you've been able to work connectively with within NAIFA, I mean, you're you're woven into the fabric of who we are as a as a family member within NAIFA. I mean, what is NAIFA and the relationship with NAIFA meant to you?

Carroll Golden 32:36

I think, I think talk about feeling that you are able to help our members grow. I am a member, I belong to a chapter. And that feeling of family, that feeling that no matter what I need, I emailed to members of my own chapter last night, saying, hey, I need advice. What do you think of this, it's that feeling of family, of community of belonging to an organization that spends its entire time trying to make me and mine more successful, that feeling that will take time with one another, to ferret out the information that will help us grow our business, help us grow as a person. And frankly, I love the events. I mean, whether it's a chapter event or an annual event, I hope to see everybody at an LC, because it's a fun event. And it's a great place to really recognize that we are family, we do care. And we do what we need to do to better ourselves, not only as an organization, but each person individually.

Suzanne Carawan 33:58

You know, it's funny Chris Carroll first got here, she she thought she was merely going to be a consultant and give her expertise. And then like as years go by, you know, she's really drinks the Kool Aid of NAIFA, and the next day, now she's recruiting people, right? She's got referrals, go I go, she's bringing people in, she's talking the whole thing. And it's, you know, that's, that's what it's all about. So it's been, Carroll has quite a few notches on her belt on membership recruitment as well. So that's, that's fantastic. We're always growing the family.

Chris Gandy 34:26

So with that being said, you know, we have a lightning round. And that lightning round is more in a rule of thumb. Elders have done it is whatever comes off the top of your head. That's what you say. Again, they're very vanilla questions, but they're questions just to kind of have some making shuffles. So make you say, you know, yeah, I don't know. But But typically, we've had a little bit of fun with this catching people. I know this is a curveball in the ninth inning, and we're going to lay it out For Yes. So with that being said, are you ready to go?

Carroll Golden 35:03

I guess yes.

Chris Gandy 35:07

All right. So Suzanne, do you have anything before we launch into our quote unquote lightning round?

Suzanne Carawan 35:12

No, just my advice account. Just don't overthink it. Just go with the top of mind.

Chris Gandy 35:18

Okay, so Miss Carroll, we'll start off. We'll start off pretty easy. So we're on the precipice of Halloween. So what's your favorite? Sweet Treat

Carroll Golden 35:27

or candy? Hot chocolate.

Chris Gandy 35:33

Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. All right, so your favorite mentor? So someone who's mentored you that definitely you're like, definitely they they're inspiring.

Carroll Golden 35:45

My first manager, Charles, Mariska at New England Financial.

Chris Gandy 35:50

Okay. And any advice you would give us? Someone started in the business? If they started today? What's the one thing you would tell?

Carroll Golden 35:59

Join NAIFA you're going to need the support of others who have walked in your shoes.

Chris Gandy 36:04

And you mentioned you have children? You mentioned you have children? Which one of your children? Would you say that? Or? No, I take that back. Here's one. If your children can take you somewhere on this planet, anywhere on vacation, where would you like for them to? This is a this is something for you so that we can play this for them? Where would you want them to take you?

Carroll Golden 36:28

France? I speak French. I miss como sama

Chris Gandy 36:33

already? Yeah. See, I lived it. So those of you don't know I lived in France for over two years playing professional basketball. So last question, which I think everyone wants to know. Your favorite, favorite favorite food?

Carroll Golden 36:49

Oh, I would say and this kind of sound crazy nuts. I love any kind of nuts, whether you put it in bread, whether it's peanut butter, whatever you're going to do with them. I really like nuts.

Chris Gandy 37:08

Wonderful. And so there's no right or wrong answer. But with that wouldn't be said, Miss Carol golden. It's always a blessing to have you here. Thank you so much for not only your effort, your energy and your leadership, you know, you paved the way for numerous others, not only not only professionals to understand long term care and enhance their business, but obviously you've provided a unique approach because you've paved the way for other young women to come into this industry and aspire to be like you so round of applause for you. Thank you so much for your service. Before we wrap up, Suzanne, do you have anything?

Suzanne Carawan 37:49

I'd say Thank you, Carroll all the same big Ditto on that if it wasn't for Carroll, I would never have gone to the IOTC conference and learned in one session that a handful of nuts and walking in tandem every day will stave off Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. So that combination is something a really key piece. And I would never picked up the little fun fact which I practiced regularly. Thank you.

Chris Gandy 38:12

I had to remember that. Miss Carroll, do you have any anything you already worried you would like to leave us with before I wrap this up?

Carroll Golden 38:19

No, I want to thank you both. Frankly, I totally enjoy discussing this with the two of you. And I think we'll all just carry on please.

Chris Gandy 38:30

Wonderful. Well thank everyone for listening to the NAIFA's Advisor Today podcast, where we promote uplift, educate and support each other just so we can help our clients go off be well and make this world a better place at least 1% at a time. Thank you all for tuning in. And we'll see you next time. Thank you

Outro 38:57

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28 min read